Why the Navy Needs Disruption Now

[Tonitrus]

I think the F-35 is going to end up being fine. It won't be awesome, but nothing "Joint" ever is, but it is going to be very successful.

Well yeah, the most serious competition it is likely to go up against is 70s and 80s era Soviet crap with questionable maintenance.

Questionable maintenance maybe, but I wouldn't call the Su-35S/34, or even the more updated Su-27s, "70-80s Soviet crap".

Besides, for air-to-air, it's probably really more about AA missile tech/range for now.

[Razgovory]

I warned them!  (Quite literally; I authored the study, 20 years ago, that the Navy commissioned, and then rejected, to evaluate whether the F-14E or F/A-18 E/F would be the aircraft to hold the line until the F-35 was completed; the F-14 won so hands down the DSB chastised the Navy for not selecting it).

Is there any truth to the rumors that the F-15E and jellies from the Chair Force helped kill the F-14E?

What's a "Jellie"?

[Tonitrus]

Jealous folks.

Specifically, in this case, USAF folks who envy the ultra-cool F-14 (and I don't blame them...it's one of my favorite all-time aircraft from childhood).

[Berkut]

The F-14 is pretty damn cool, but then, so is the F-15.

Hell, that entire generation of aircraft were mostly fucking awesome. -14, -15, -16. F-111. A-6. A-10. A truly incredibly effective generation of aircraft.

[Tonitrus]

And now we don't win anymore. 

[mongers]

The F-14 is pretty damn cool, but then, so is the F-15.

Hell, that entire generation of aircraft were mostly fucking awesome. -14, -15, -16. F-111. A-6. A-10. A truly incredibly effective generation of aircraft.

Not to nick pick, but the A6 and F111 are more of the previous generation, didn't those both fight in Vietnam, in the F111 case not too successfully?

[Berkut]

The F-14 is pretty damn cool, but then, so is the F-15.

Hell, that entire generation of aircraft were mostly fucking awesome. -14, -15, -16. F-111. A-6. A-10. A truly incredibly effective generation of aircraft.

Not to nick pick, but the A6 and F111 are more of the previous generation, didn't those both fight in Vietnam, in the F111 case not too successfully?

No, that is true - they are not the same gen as the 14/15/16, but they all "served" together.

I dunno about the F-111 in Vietnam though - I always thought it was considered to be a pretty capable platform though, but I could be wrong about that I suppose.

So I will just stick with the 14/15/16/A-10 then.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Yeah, F-111s flew in Vietnam.   IIRC they did pretty well there.

E:  Looks like they got off to a rough start though:

Deployment in Asia

The Air Force F-111s didn't have an auspicious debut in combat. After a detachment of six F-111As was deployed to Vietnam in 1968, three of them crashed in just fifty-five missions, all of them accidents linked to defective wing stabilizers. The Air Force was forced to withdraw the F-111 and correct the flaw at a cost of $100 million.

It wasn't until the Linebacker raids in 1972 that the F-Aardvark finally demonstrated its potential. Skimming beneath North Vietnam's extensive radar network at night, F-111s blasted North Vietnamese airfields and air defense batteries, weakening the resistance to incoming B-52 raids. Aardvarks didn't require the fighter escort, electronic warfare support, or midair refueling that other bombers required, and could operate in inclement weather. Only six F-111s were lost in combat over the course 4,000 missions during the war, one of the lowest loss rates of the war.

F-111s ended up participating in the last combat operation undertaken by the U.S. military in South East Asia, when the Cambodian Khmer Rouge seized the container ship S.S. Mayaguez in May 1975. Two Aardvarks diverted from a training flight were the first to locate the Mayaguez. Later, an F-111 sank a Khmer Rouge patrol boat escorting the seized ship.

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah, it saw action at the tail end of Vietnam, and always stood ready to drop tactical nukes all over Central Europe for the rest of the Cold War.  Did quite a bit of sorties in GW1. 

I always thought it was a gorgeous airframe, even if it did have a slight hint of MiGishness about it. 

[CountDeMoney]

I think the F-35 is going to end up being fine. It won't be awesome, but nothing "Joint" ever is, but it is going to be very successful.

Well yeah, the most serious competition it is likely to go up against is 70s and 80s era Soviet crap with questionable maintenance.

That's not the kind of philosophy you build a weapons system around.

But I'm sure the JSF will do fine, as long as it doesn't see combat.

[Tonitrus]

The F-14 is pretty damn cool, but then, so is the F-15.

Hell, that entire generation of aircraft were mostly fucking awesome. -14, -15, -16. F-111. A-6. A-10. A truly incredibly effective generation of aircraft.

We should just upgrade the electronics/avionics, and re-up those assembly lines. 

(it'd probably be cheaper too)

[Admiral Yi]

I still say the Phantom had twice the charisma of the F14 and F15.  Thing looked like a flying muscle car.

[CountDeMoney]

I still say the Phantom had twice the charisma of the F14 and F15.  Thing looked like a flying muscle car.

Oh yeah, only thing missing was the hood scoop.  What a boss jet.

[grumbler]

I still say the Phantom had twice the charisma of the F14 and F15.  Thing looked like a flying muscle car.

It was a good-looking plane (not as good looking as the F-14 or F-15) but not a very good fighter.  The Navy had to take F-8s back from the reserves to get a front-line fighter in Vietnam.

[grumbler]

The A-6 had charisma.  Flight of the Intruder was 10x the movie Top Gun was.

Do it, Sandy.
       
Do it now.
             
I'd do it for you.