Coup attempt in Turkey

[OttoVonBismarck]

I think Erdogan has asked us to deport Gülen before, he knows it won't happen.

America has literally been blamed for every coup in Turkish history; it's part of why our relationship with Turkey is so bizarre. We've certainly shamefully participated in coups but I legitimately don't believe we've ever done so in Turkey which is what makes it ironic to a degree. I think by getting us to refuse to extradite Gülen Erdo gets a domestic bump by America bashing.

I do think Turkey's constitution is questionable, Erdogan's AKP lost big in the last legislative elections and it had no impact on his ability to continue eroding democracy, and their politicized judiciary and the acceptability of arresting thousands of judges or presumably trumped up charges suggests their whole system just isn't designed for democracy.

[Razgovory]

Tamas seemed fine with blaming it on Gulen.  Mass murder is fine, but failure, that takes religion.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I actually suspect something real bad is going to happen when Turkey finishes preparing its formal extradition request for Fethullah Gülen; now unless I'm mistaken, since Gülen is a permanent resident with a green card, there is no mechanism for the State Department or the President to just "extradite him" on special request from Turkey. We would have to hold an extradition hearing in courts, which are not politically answerable to U.S. foreign policy concerns. Unless the Turkish request actually contains legitimate evidence that would withstand court scrutiny, it's likely the request will be rejected by a court--and even if Obama was inclined to do something about it, he couldn't.

I've heard some people suggest Erdogan might basically close up Incirlik and not allow anyone to come or go, essentially holding some ~5000 American servicemen hostage, until Gülen is extradited.

and I will once again point to the significant amount of Turkish Erdogan-voters (lets just call these islamofascists instead though) in many european countries willing to take to streets and engage in violence on the Turkish Führer's behalf.

[Malicious Intent]

I actually suspect something real bad is going to happen when Turkey finishes preparing its formal extradition request for Fethullah Gülen; now unless I'm mistaken, since Gülen is a permanent resident with a green card, there is no mechanism for the State Department or the President to just "extradite him" on special request from Turkey. We would have to hold an extradition hearing in courts, which are not politically answerable to U.S. foreign policy concerns. Unless the Turkish request actually contains legitimate evidence that would withstand court scrutiny, it's likely the request will be rejected by a court--and even if Obama was inclined to do something about it, he couldn't.

I've heard some people suggest Erdogan might basically close up Incirlik and not allow anyone to come or go, essentially holding some ~5000 American servicemen hostage, until Gülen is extradited.

and I will once again point to the significant amount of Turkish Erdogan-voters (lets just call these islamofascists instead though) in many european countries willing to take to streets and engage in violence on the Turkish Führer's behalf.

The first instances of that have been reported in Germany. In Gelsenkirchen a mob of 150 attacked a Hizmet building. Alevites and Kurds reported a spike of violent attacks against them since the coup. Turkish run mosques (the vast majority of mosques in Germany are financed, staffed and steered from Turkey) agitate against "traitors".

[Duque de Bragança]

I actually suspect something real bad is going to happen when Turkey finishes preparing its formal extradition request for Fethullah Gülen; now unless I'm mistaken, since Gülen is a permanent resident with a green card, there is no mechanism for the State Department or the President to just "extradite him" on special request from Turkey. We would have to hold an extradition hearing in courts, which are not politically answerable to U.S. foreign policy concerns. Unless the Turkish request actually contains legitimate evidence that would withstand court scrutiny, it's likely the request will be rejected by a court--and even if Obama was inclined to do something about it, he couldn't.

I've heard some people suggest Erdogan might basically close up Incirlik and not allow anyone to come or go, essentially holding some ~5000 American servicemen hostage, until Gülen is extradited.

and I will once again point to the significant amount of Turkish Erdogan-voters (lets just call these islamofascists instead though) in many european countries willing to take to streets and engage in violence on the Turkish Führer's behalf.

The first instances of that have been reported in Germany. In Gelsenkirchen a mob of 150 attacked a Hizmet building. Alevites and Kurds reported a spike of violent attacks against them since the coup. Turkish run mosques (the vast majority of mosques in Germany are financed, staffed and steered from Turkey) agitate against "traitors".

Well, at least with German citizenship laws, these Erdogan stooges have to choose between German and Turkish citizenship.

[Tamas]

These people highly annoy me. If Erdogan is such a worship-worthy genius, then go and live under his rule.

[mongers]

These people highly annoy me. If Erdogan is such a worship-worthy genius, then go and live under his rule.

They're like Irish-American republicans or patriotic Brits living in Spain/Greece.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I actually suspect something real bad is going to happen when Turkey finishes preparing its formal extradition request for Fethullah Gülen; now unless I'm mistaken, since Gülen is a permanent resident with a green card, there is no mechanism for the State Department or the President to just "extradite him" on special request from Turkey. We would have to hold an extradition hearing in courts, which are not politically answerable to U.S. foreign policy concerns. Unless the Turkish request actually contains legitimate evidence that would withstand court scrutiny, it's likely the request will be rejected by a court--and even if Obama was inclined to do something about it, he couldn't.

I've heard some people suggest Erdogan might basically close up Incirlik and not allow anyone to come or go, essentially holding some ~5000 American servicemen hostage, until Gülen is extradited.

and I will once again point to the significant amount of Turkish Erdogan-voters (lets just call these islamofascists instead though) in many european countries willing to take to streets and engage in violence on the Turkish Führer's behalf.

The first instances of that have been reported in Germany. In Gelsenkirchen a mob of 150 attacked a Hizmet building. Alevites and Kurds reported a spike of violent attacks against them since the coup. Turkish run mosques (the vast majority of mosques in Germany are financed, staffed and steered from Turkey) agitate against "traitors".

here it was in Beringen, near the old coal-mines. Same MO for the rest.

frankly, it's time our governments start outlawing turkish government sponsered organisations and mosques. And Turks who's loyalties lie with Erdogan and his islamofascist ideal better go too.

-----
edit: I haven't seen the comparison here yet (or maybe I missed it) but what happened in Turkey can probably best be compared to the Night of the Long Knives. Different groups (AKP, Gulenists, etc) infiltrating the state-apparatus, on occasion together due to compatible goals, and eventually one group eliminating all others.

[Razgovory]

   Thank you Putin.

[The Larch]

It seems that Erdogan is getting trigger happy with his purging.

Turkey sacks 15,000 education workers in purge after failed coup
More than 1,500 university deans asked to resign and 257 PM's office staff dismissed, with 35,000 public servants now affected

Turkey has escalated its purge of government officials in the aftermath of the failed coup, with about 35,000 public servants affected by the end of the day despite a government spokesman insisting that the crackdown was being carried out in accordance with the rule of law.

In the latest developments on Tuesday, the government fired more than 15,000 employees at the education ministry, sacked 257 officials at the prime minister's office and 492 clerics at the directorate for religious affairs. Additionally, more than 1,500 university deans were asked to resign.

It followed the firing of nearly 8,800 policemen, and the arrests of 6,000 soldiers, 2,700 judges and prosecutors, dozens of governors, and more than 100 generals – or just under one-third of the general corps. Some 20 news websites critical of the government have also been blocked.

The Turkish government says it is carrying out a legitimate security operation to safeguard the country in the aftermath of a failed coup that came close to toppling the elected president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan in the early hours of Saturday morning.

The government claims those arrested or fired had links to Fethullah Gülen, the US-based Islamic cleric whom Turkey accuses of orchestrating the coup, which left more than 300 dead at the weekend. On Tuesday it announced it was preparing a dossier to send to the US in expectation of Gülen's extradition.

But the scale of the arrests and firings led to fears that Erdoğan is using the situation to settle scores with anyone perceived to pose any kind of threat to the government, whether or not they were involved in the coup.

Two of the world's leading human rights organisations joined a chorus of international leaders in calling on Turkey to abide by the rule of law as it dealt with the coup's perpetrators.

"The sheer number of arrests and suspensions since Friday is alarming and we are monitoring the situation very closely," Amnesty International said in a statement. "The coup attempt unleashed appalling violence and those responsible for unlawful killings and other human rights abuses must be brought to justice, but cracking down on dissent and threatening to bring back the death penalty are not justice."

Human Rights Watch said: "While the government has the complete right to hold to account those involved in the coup, the speed and scale of the arrests, including of top judges, suggests a purge rather than a process based on any evidence. Turkey's citizens who took to the streets to defend democracy deserve a response that upholds the rule of law and protects media freedom."

In response, Erdoğan's spokesman, Ibrahim Kalin, said all those arrested had been detained according to laws "enshrined in our constitution and our penal law. There's nothing exceptional or surprising that several thousand people would be arrested."

Expressing irritation at the many international calls for Turkey to respect the rule of law, Kalin added: "We are the ones who got on the streets and shed our blood for democracy and the rule of law."

Kalin confirmed Turkey was preparing a dossier of evidence for the US in order to request Gülen's extradition. Some of the arrested generals had already admitted their connection to Gülen's dissident movement during interrogations this week. Kalin said he saw no reason why the US would turn the request down, and warned that Turks might get the wrong impression if it was rejected.

"On grounds of suspicion he can easily be extradited," said Kalin. "If they insist on keeping him then a lot of people here will think he is assisted by the US."

Turkey was braced for more stringent measures on Thursday, with the country's national security council expected to meet for the first time since the coup attempt. There are fears that Turkey could enact a state of emergency that might make it easier for Erdoğan to crack down on his opponents, though nothing has been confirmed.

While a broad coalition of political forces united with Erdoğan to oppose the coup at the weekend, many now fear this will be no protection against the president's widening crackdown.

But large swaths of the population back the president's actions, who they idolise for boosting Turkey's economy and representing the country's lower classes. Thousands have turned out in pro-Erdoğan rallies since the weekend.

"This country has never seen this kind of president or prime minister," one supporter, standing outside Istanbul's city hall, argued, before listing Erdoğan's perceived achievements since reaching power in 2003.

"No other president or prime minister achieved what he has done – in economic terms, in charitable terms, and in patriotic terms. There's such a difference, a world of difference, in our lifestyle. Healthcare has especially improved. We have opportunities, and we have options."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/19/turkey-sacks-15000-education-workers-in-purge

[Berkut]

Never waste a good crisis.

[The Larch]

Never waste a good crisis.

What's Stalin's purging record? Maybe he's going after that.

[Solmyr]

Would be ironic if all this purging triggered another coup or revolt that actually succeeds.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Would be ironic if all this purging triggered another coup or revolt that actually succeeds.

or maybe he purges Turkey into pieces

[Valmy]

"No other president or prime minister achieved what he has done – in economic terms, in charitable terms, and in patriotic terms. There's such a difference, a world of difference, in our lifestyle. Healthcare has especially improved. We have opportunities, and we have options."

Huh. I would have thought having multiple countries around them collapse into violence and chaos would have reduced their options.