Stuck In Your Parents’ Basement? Don’t Blame The Economy

[Berkut]

And yes, Harlem is technically part of Manhattan, but not really. Rents there are about 60% of Manhattan averages.

Well yeah you over a hundred of blocks away from Wall Street. But come on Berkut it is one of the most famous parts of Manhattan. The point is that even to live in Brooklyn or the Bronx you can pay a lot for very shit accommodations. Sucks for your family of five.  But, to be fair, being crammed into a shitty little apartment with your extended family is what the whole NYC experience has always been about.

Oh, I get it. My little sister lives in an apartment in Stuyvesant Town with her husband, three daughters, and one rather large dog.

I very much understand the "jam a bunch of  people into a small area" meme!

Or rather, I am aware of it - personally, I don't *understand* it, it seems nuts to me.

But that is a choice they made, and they seem happy with it overall. They are not forced to live there, they could live elsewhere if their priorities were different.

[garbon]

I think it is the only interesting data point in the general argument about the problems of affordable housing across the US. If the discussion is about housing prices in NYC and SF, then it isn't important. Which is, I suspect, the basic problem. The idea that there exists this entire America that isn't in NYC/SF/Boston/Chicago.

I don't think anyone is advancing the point that the rest of the country doesn't exist. I may not like the bits outside my safe blue corridors but that doesn't mean they don't exist.  Nor does it mean that people who have issues living in and around the nations big cities are just entitled folk who should get over themselves and move to middle America.

[The Minsky Moment]

Which is, I suspect, the basic problem. The idea that there exists this entire America that isn't in NYC/SF/Boston/Chicago.

When the time comes to discuss agricultural policy, or the impact of fracking on local water supplies, or federal land use policy, there are plenty of us metro folk that listen politely without saying - oh that's just Iowa's problem not an American problem.  It's possible to consider that a regional problem has national significance without denying the existence of everywhere else.

[Berkut]

Which is, I suspect, the basic problem. The idea that there exists this entire America that isn't in NYC/SF/Boston/Chicago.

When the time comes to discuss agricultural policy, or the impact of fracking on local water supplies, or federal land use policy, there are plenty of us metro folk that listen politely without saying - oh that's just Iowa's problem not an American problem.  It's possible to consider that a regional problem has national significance without denying the existence of everywhere else.

Nobody is denying that there is a regional problem with housing prices though.

The discussion did not start about *regional* housing costs, it started about national housing costs. And then immediately you guys focused on the regional issue specifically. My entire point is that when talking about the national problem, bringing up the regions where the problem is only partially about the national problem is not useful, since it makes it easy to dismiss as just a regional problem, especially when the data shows that those regions are extreme outliers to the average that is under discussion.

This is exactly the opposite of what you are saying. The problem of national housing prices moving up while national incomes remain stagnant is NOT well illuminated by talking about how hard it is to find affordable housing in Manhattan or San Francisco. Because most people are not looking for housing in those places, and those places are not at all similar to the vast majority of places where the average American is experiencing this pain.

Noting that seems, to me, pretty uncontroversial. It isn't denying that there is a problem in those places (indeed, those places have much *worse* problems, and have for some time, *because* they are in fact those outliers to the mean). I am kind of at a loss at this point. If you want to have a discussion about any particular topic, basic reason says that using outlier extremes as your example set is almost always misleading.

[derspiess]

Nor does it mean that people who have issues living in and around the nations big cities are just entitled folk who should get over themselves and move to middle America.

Speaking for Middle America, my preference is for big city types to remain crammed in their cities and not move here.  I mean, just look what they did to Florida

[garbon]

Nor does it mean that people who have issues living in and around the nations big cities are just entitled folk who should get over themselves and move to middle America.

Speaking for Middle America, my preference is for big city types to remain crammed in their cities and not move here.  I mean, just look what they did to Florida

It was a shitty state and has continued to be so the difference is?

[Valmy]

I mean, just look what they did to Florida

Yeah it used to be more like Alabama and Mississippi. What a tragedy

[derspiess]

I mean, just look what they did to Florida

Yeah it used to be more like Alabama and Mississippi. What a tragedy

The parts that were like that are still like that.  Nowadays you can't go anywhere in central Florida without hearing NY/NJ accents.  Only positive thing is that there are better Italian restaurants.

[Valmy]

I mean, just look what they did to Florida

Yeah it used to be more like Alabama and Mississippi. What a tragedy

The parts that were like that are still like that.  Nowadays you can't go anywhere in central Florida without hearing NY/NJ accents.  Only positive thing is that there are better Italian restaurants.

Huh. What was Miami like before the yankees moved in?

[Brazen]

20-somethings? Oh boo hoo. There are plenty of 40-somethings moving back with their parents in London.

[Valmy]

20-somethings? Oh boo hoo. There are plenty of 40-somethings moving back with their parents in London.

How sweet! Their elderly parents probably need to be cared for.

[The Brain]

I grew up in an apartment.

[derspiess]

Huh. What was Miami like before the yankees moved in?

Dunno.  First time I got to visit Miami was like 2003.

[MadImmortalMan]

I very much understand the "jam a bunch of  people into a small area" meme!

Or rather, I am aware of it - personally, I don't *understand* it, it seems nuts to me.

Some people get lonely. 

These are the type of people who make kickball games mandatory to join so they can have enough players. 

[MadImmortalMan]

20-somethings? Oh boo hoo. There are plenty of 40-somethings moving back with their parents in London.

London is an outlier among outliers. You guys have the perfect storm of circumstances, effects, rules and regulations to ensure insane housing prices. London is doing literally everything wrong in that respect. At least from what I can tell.