St. Paul was the only human who lived in the first and second centuries AD

[Caliga]

I think the Christian sect native to Iraq is Nestorian, actually.

is that also known as the Assyrian Church now?

There's an Assyrian Church, which I know has adherents in Syria (not surprisingly), and might be the same thing.  Saddam's Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz was actually one of these sorts of Christians.

[alfred russel]

Oh lordy, a Christology hijack. 

Reminds me of my mandatory "Catholic training" before I got married. Now, *that* was wierd, but very enjoyable! 

Did they teach you about the prayer for the conversion of the Jews?

No, it was wierder than that.

In order to marry in the Ukranian Catholic church, I had to attend one-on-one sessions with the priest. Naturally, I was a bit nervous about that.

However, as it turns out the priest was a perfect gentleman with zero interest in conversion. He found out somehow that I was interested in history, and so we spent the whole time talking about wierd early medieval heresies, which he knew an amazing amount about. For example, it was him that first told me that the term "buggery" was traced to the erotic habits of the Bogomils, allegedly because they reviled "normal" heterosex as leading to procreation (which was evil as it made more subjects for the lord of the world, i.e. the devil).

Not your standard Catholic wedding instructions, methinks.

Interesting--I guess it makes sense because they spend years training on this stuff. But my first instinct was to assume that you may know more than the priest.

[Caliga]

I had a similar experience (that I know I've related before on Languish) with the Episcopal Priest who married us.  He ended up giving me a bunch of shit from the church, including a communion tray. 

[alfred russel]

Awesome chart. Now which answer is it that would have kept me alive back when they burned heretics?

INQUISITOR: Human or divine?
ALFRED: Both.
INQUISITOR: Essence?
ALFRED: Same as God the Father.
INQUISITOR:  Association between human and divine?
ALFRED: Same individual.
INQUISITOR: Physicial aspects?
ALFRED: Distinct.
INQUISITOR: Human and divine intent?
ALFRED: Distinct.
INQUISITOR: Wow, you actually got it.  Ok, you get to be Pope.

So the correct answer is Chalcedonianism. The more you know...

[saskganesh]

The funny thing is that, for the most part, these differences are superficial, but people were tortured, killed, and even fought wars over them.

I know it seems bizarre to us,  and it still offends materialists, but these distinctions were vital for the people at the time. People kept up with the "heresies", devoted incredible energy to debating them, and treated them with utmost sincerity.

They also had a political function though; most heresies were rooted in areas/ethnicities looking for expression under a government system that did not allow for stuff like political parties or popular representation. example: Monophysites were Isaurians,  Arians were largely Goths, lots of Gnostics in Egypt and so on. So one critical aspect of these silly heresies is that they allowed more people entry into politics, which  otherwise could not happen under autocratic or later feudal regimes.

[Neil]

In order to marry in the Ukranian Catholic church, I had to attend one-on-one sessions with the priest. Naturally, I was a bit nervous about that.

I got around that by living in Edmonton while getting married in Peace River.  Plus, my wife's grandfather (who was performing the ceremony) was high priest and prince of the Church, so the regular pastor was overruled.

[Caliga]

I know it seems bizarre to us,  and it still offends materialists, but these distinctions were vital for the people at the time. People kept up with the "heresies", devoted incredible energy to debating them, and treated them with utmost sincerity.

They also had a political function though; most heresies were rooted in areas/ethnicities looking for expression under a government system that did not allow for stuff like political parties or popular representation. example: Monophysites were Isaurians,  Arians were largely Goths, lots of Gnostics in Egypt and so on. So one critical aspect of these silly heresies is that they allowed more people entry into politics, which  otherwise could not happen under autocratic or later feudal regimes.

Quite correct sir.  In the case of the Arians, it just so happened that Arius was a missionary to the Germanic peoples, which is why they adopted that particular theology.  I always imagined him as some early hippy.  The ideas of the Popes in Rome were such a drag, man. 

edit: Wait... I think the missionary was another guy, Arius was just like a guru who lived in Antioch or someplace.

[alfred russel]

So one critical aspect of these silly heresies is that they allowed more people entry into politics, which  otherwise could not happen under autocratic or later feudal regimes.

You guys know more about this than I do, but I thought the opposite was the case? Taking the case of the Visigoths as an example, they were Arians with significant economic power and political power, that until their invasion of North Africa and Italy were somewhat marginalized politically due to their religion. The "proper christians" in power, including the pope, were effectively using the difference in belief to keep them marginalized.

[Caliga]

You guys know more about this than I do, but I thought the opposite was the case? Taking the case of the Visigoths as an example, they were Arians with significant economic power and political power, that until their invasion of North Africa and Italy were somewhat marginalized politically due to their religion. The "proper christians" in power, including the pope, were effectively using the difference in belief to keep them marginalized.

I singled out the Arians in my reply to sask because they don't fit his mold, actually... but AFAIK the other heresies pretty much do.

In fact, IIRC the Goths were still Arians when they sacked Rome, so at this one time the Pope would have actually been at the mercy of non-Catholic heretics.

[alfred russel]

I singled out the Arians in my reply to sask because they don't fit his mold, actually... but AFAIK the other heresies pretty much do.

In fact, IIRC the Goths were still Arians when they sacked Rome, so at this one time the Pope would have actually been at the mercy of non-Catholic heretics.

The arians are really the only ones I know about--they were still arians, but I believe they viewed the pope with respect despite the religious nature of the war.

[Caliga]

Well, they must have, or else I suppose he might have found himself beheaded when Rome fell.

OTOH, there was something I recall about Arianism not being universal within the Germanic tribes, so maybe deposing the Pope would have caused internal division (assuming the non-Arianisms were actually Catholic and not something else).

[alfred russel]

Well, they must have, or else I suppose he might have found himself beheaded when Rome fell.

OTOH, there was something I recall about Arianism not being universal within the Germanic tribes, so maybe deposing the Pope would have caused internal division (assuming the non-Arianisms were actually Catholic and not something else).

Christianity wasn't universal among the tribes--both the Franks and Anglo-Saxons had to be converted after Rome fell--but I thought the Visigoths at least were relatively unified Arians.

[Caliga]

Sorry, I meant that within the tribes that were Arian, there was no universal adherence to Arianism.  Actually, the Franks went right from paganism to Catholicism with no intermediate Arian phase.

[Valmy]

So the correct answer is Chalcedonianism. The more you know...

Yes the Orthodox view was defined at the Council of Chalcedon.

[crazy canuck]

Awesome chart. Now which answer is it that would have kept me alive back when they burned heretics?

Describing all the views of whether Christ of human or not or some mixture together with a holy spirit is hard enough.  The answer to this latest question depends on where you are and when.  The position of the Church before the schism varied, sometimes from decade to decade, and certainly from place to place depending on where you were in the empire.  But the serious problem of getting persecuted for your view didnt start happening until the Emperors tried their hands at settling the question.  Defying other clergy was one thing but defying the ruling of an Emperor could get you killed.  Problem was the view also changed from Emperor to Emperor.

The whole thing makes for fascinating reading.