St. Paul was the only human who lived in the first and second centuries AD

[alfred russel]

I think a christian would tell you that even Jesus was fully human (in addition to being fully divine)

Welcome to the debate that vexed Christianity for the better part of 1500 years - maybe longer.

The Catholic position is that he is fully both at the same time, correct?

The other positions that I can think of were the Arian, Donatist, Carpocratian, Monophysite, and Monotheletist positions.

I can't remember which is which, but one stated he was fully human and not divine, though still the son of God (Arianism?), one stated he was completely divine and lacked any mortal component... I guess basically making him a ghost (Donatist?), one said he was mostly human but had a unique spark of the divine, one stating he was human, but had a divine soul (Carpocratian?), and I forget what the last one was.

The funny thing is that, for the most part, these differences are superficial, but people were tortured, killed, and even fought wars over them.

I don't know. I knew there were disputes over the divinity and humanity of Jesus in the early days of the church, but I thought they were "resolved" and both catholics and protestant groups are now satisfied with the fully human and fully divine aspect of Jesus. I could be wrong on that though--someone correct me if I am.

[Malthus]

Oh lordy, a Christology hijack. 

Reminds me of my mandatory "Catholic training" before I got married. Now, *that* was wierd, but very enjoyable! 

[Caliga]

not sure but I think the Cathars had their own view too.

Hmmm... my memory on all of this is dim, but didn't Cathar theology come from the Bogomils, who picked theirs up from an eastern group?  If so, it might be a form of Nestorianism or Monophysitism.

[alfred russel]

Oh lordy, a Christology hijack. 

Reminds me of my mandatory "Catholic training" before I got married. Now, *that* was wierd, but very enjoyable! 

Did they teach you about the prayer for the conversion of the Jews?

[Caliga]

I don't know. I knew there were disputes over the divinity and humanity of Jesus in the early days of the church, but I thought they were "resolved" and both catholics and protestant groups are now satisfied with the fully human and fully divine aspect of Jesus. I could be wrong on that though--someone correct me if I am.

You are not wrong... we're talking about very, very early splits within the Christian universe.  The last debates that I'm aware of, not including the Cathars which Ivan already mentioned, involved various groups within the Byzantine Empire.  While I don't remember the nature of Monotheletism, I do remember that it was artifically contrived (by an Emperor?) to reconcile the Monophysites with the Catholics, and it failed in that regard.

Now that I think about it, I think Martin Luther might have held "un-Catholic" views with regard to Christology, but I don't know that his teachings actually carried over into any branch of Protestantism, though I suppose few, if any, Protestants believe in transsubstantiation, which I suppose would be a Christological position (and one on which they differ with traditional Catholics).

[Caliga]

Oh lordy, a Christology hijack. 

Reminds me of my mandatory "Catholic training" before I got married. Now, *that* was wierd, but very enjoyable! 

a) I find Christology endlessly fascinating;

b) I can hijack my own thread if I want to.

[Malthus]

not sure but I think the Cathars had their own view too.

Hmmm... my memory on all of this is dim, but didn't Cathar theology come from the Bogomils, who picked theirs up from an eastern group?  If so, it might be a form of Nestorianism or Monophysitism.

The Cathars were a variant on the Gnostic strain of Christianity, which held that the world of the flesh (i.e. this world) was basically bad, and the world of the spirit was good. Thus, the "ruler of this world" was the devil, which they associated with the judeo-christian God. The medieval Church was thus, in Cathar view, "worldy" and evil.

Not unnaturally, this put them in some conflict with the established church.

[Malthus]

Oh lordy, a Christology hijack. 

Reminds me of my mandatory "Catholic training" before I got married. Now, *that* was wierd, but very enjoyable! 

a) I find Christology endlessly fascinating;

b) I can hijack my own thread if I want to.

Hey, no disputes from me - it is just a funny hijack. 

[Caliga]

The Cathars were a variant on the Gnostic strain of Christianity, which held that the world of the flesh (i.e. this world) was basically bad, and the world of the spirit was good. Thus, the "ruler of this world" was the devil, which they associated with the judeo-christian God. The medieval Church was thus, in Cathar view, "worldy" and evil.

Not unnaturally, this put them in some conflict with the established church.

That makes both of our assertions possibly correct then, as the Nestorians were a descendant branch of Gnosticism.

I think the Christian sect native to Iraq is Nestorian, actually.

[Caliga]

A-ha!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Christology_Flowchart.PNG

[alfred russel]

A-ha!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Christology_Flowchart.PNG

Awesome chart. Now which answer is it that would have kept me alive back when they burned heretics?

[Malthus]

Oh lordy, a Christology hijack. 

Reminds me of my mandatory "Catholic training" before I got married. Now, *that* was wierd, but very enjoyable! 

Did they teach you about the prayer for the conversion of the Jews?

No, it was wierder than that.

In order to marry in the Ukranian Catholic church, I had to attend one-on-one sessions with the priest. Naturally, I was a bit nervous about that.

However, as it turns out the priest was a perfect gentleman with zero interest in conversion. He found out somehow that I was interested in history, and so we spent the whole time talking about wierd early medieval heresies, which he knew an amazing amount about. For example, it was him that first told me that the term "buggery" was traced to the erotic habits of the Bogomils, allegedly because they reviled "normal" heterosex as leading to procreation (which was evil as it made more subjects for the lord of the world, i.e. the devil).

Not your standard Catholic wedding instructions, methinks.

[The Brain]

I think Sask is talking about whether the genetics point to an ethnic Greek, Roman, Turk, or Jewish corpse.

Can DNA point to a specific county of origin now?

This question is coming from a Kentuckian?

[saskganesh]

I think the Christian sect native to Iraq is Nestorian, actually.

is that also known as the Assyrian Church now?

[Caliga]

Awesome chart. Now which answer is it that would have kept me alive back when they burned heretics?

INQUISITOR: Human or divine?
ALFRED: Both.
INQUISITOR: Essence?
ALFRED: Same as God the Father.
INQUISITOR:  Association between human and divine?
ALFRED: Same individual.
INQUISITOR: Physicial aspects?
ALFRED: Distinct.
INQUISITOR: Human and divine intent?
ALFRED: Distinct.
INQUISITOR: Wow, you actually got it.  Ok, you get to be Pope.