GOP isn't the only party with internal issues

Started by CountDeMoney, March 02, 2016, 09:41:08 PM

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garbon

#15
March 03, 2016, 02:12:42 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 03, 2016, 02:06:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 03, 2016, 02:00:18 PM
'Martinus types'?

Huh. I just figured he was one of a kind.

I think "limousine liberal" might be the best-fit. He likes to feel all progressive-y up to a point, but he does believe the West is better than the ROTW.

Are there reasonable people who do not?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Martinus

#16
March 03, 2016, 02:13:47 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 03, 2016, 02:06:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 03, 2016, 02:00:18 PM
'Martinus types'?

Huh. I just figured he was one of a kind.

I think "limousine liberal" might be the best-fit. He likes to feel all progressive-y up to a point, but he does believe the West is better than the ROTW.

I have been reexamining lately my political stances. I am generally:

- moderate/centrist on wealth redistribution
- pro-freemarket (with the exception of being pro-regulation of big business on things such as antitrust, consumer protection, etc.)
- pro-personal freedom, including freedom of speech (with the exception of public health, i.e. I am anti-anti-vaxxer).

I wonder what you would call that, especially given the different meaning of the word "liberal" etc.  :hmm:

viper37

#17
March 03, 2016, 03:50:28 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 03, 2016, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 03, 2016, 12:05:46 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 03, 2016, 12:03:22 PM
The progressive left everywhere now have a conundrum...

No shit.  Raz gets his jollies from calling Hamas right-wing, but their friends in the West are lefties.

Multiculturalist lefties, not Martinus types.
Like supporters of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party, the guy taking selfies with known Hamas supporters?  Yeah, that type, exactly :)  I bet they're in shock to learn the Hamas are not the good guys.  Or maybe, they just think it's the price to pay for freedom fighting.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

derspiess

#18
March 03, 2016, 04:10:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 03, 2016, 02:04:30 PM
How would you characterize religious fundamentalists?

Depends on the movement.  Some religious fundamentalists are downright socialist in their economic views/policies.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

#19
March 03, 2016, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 03, 2016, 04:10:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 03, 2016, 02:04:30 PM
How would you characterize religious fundamentalists?

Depends on the movement.  Some religious fundamentalists are downright socialist in their economic views/policies.

Right wing can be downright socialist in some countries. Which is why that distinction can get pretty worthless when you move across national political cultures.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Martinus

#20
March 03, 2016, 04:15:35 PM
We really need to come up with better words to describe political stances.

That's why Trump needs to be the next President. He has the best words so could help.

derspiess

#21
March 03, 2016, 04:19:28 PM
I think the Left-Right, Authoritarian-Libertarian spectrum works quite well.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Martinus

#22
March 03, 2016, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 03, 2016, 04:19:28 PM
I think the Left-Right, Authoritarian-Libertarian spectrum works quite well.

There are some areas it still doesn't catch quite well. For example, many pro-personal-freedom people also believe in curbing the power of big business, especially vis-a-vis an individual - but also believe in personal responsibility and are opposed to wealth redistribution. Which box does this stance fit into?

Eddie Teach

#23
March 03, 2016, 04:31:02 PM
That would sound like a center-libertarian position.

My problem with that scale is that placing various "social issues" on the scale on the same line is arbitrary and doesn't really describe how people derive those positions.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Razgovory

#24
March 03, 2016, 07:18:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 03, 2016, 04:10:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 03, 2016, 02:04:30 PM
How would you characterize religious fundamentalists?

Depends on the movement.  Some religious fundamentalists are downright socialist in their economic views/policies.

You mean charity?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

derspiess

#25
March 03, 2016, 07:30:04 PM
No.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Razgovory

#26
March 03, 2016, 08:06:13 PM
Okay.  Well whatever you consider Socialist, Hamas is the still a far right group.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Valmy

#27
March 03, 2016, 09:20:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 03, 2016, 08:06:13 PM
Okay.  Well whatever you consider Socialist, Hamas is the still a far right group.

He just wants everything that is not him specifically to be classified as left wing. Ok maybe not but I have heard that basically said by right wing americans before :P
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Grallon

#28
March 03, 2016, 09:48:06 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 03, 2016, 02:13:47 PM
...

I have been reexamining lately my political stances.





And I wonder how often you reexamine your various positions on any number of topics during any given week...  Is Facebook, Twitter or Tumblr your GPS of choice these days?



G.
"Clearly, a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself."

~Jean-François Revel

derspiess

#29
March 03, 2016, 10:06:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 03, 2016, 08:06:13 PM
Okay.  Well whatever you consider Socialist, Hamas is the still a far right group.

Whether or not they are is irrelevant to the childish point you're trying to make.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall
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