Target Canada: the billion dollar mistake

[PRC]

From what mono said it sounds like his parents don't buy shoes, they hide during the day and come out at night and make them.

The Gnomes of Hong Kong.

[Berkut]

I would say their basic mistake was trying to go "big bang" and do it all at once.

That almost never works when the thing you are trying to do is new to you.

[Eddie Teach]

From what mono said it sounds like his parents don't buy shoes, they hide during the day and come out at night and make them.

[PRC]

Canadians wanted American Target.  Target instead delivered Canadian Wal-Mart, which we already had, twice over with both Wal-Mart and Zellers.  We already had Zellers, we already had Wal-Mart.  We wanted Target but not only did Target not give it to us, they also had all these supply chain issues to boot and poorly stocked shelves in every store greeted us.  Target in Canada was a fucking disaster.

[Barrister]

Canadians wanted American Target.  Target instead delivered Canadian Wal-Mart, which we already had, twice over with both Wal-Mart and Zellers.  We already had Zellers, we already had Wal-Mart.  We wanted Target but not only did Target not give it to us, they also had all these supply chain issues to boot and poorly stocked shelves in every store greeted us.  Target in Canada was a fucking disaster.

Umm... Canadian Target took over Zellers.  When Canadian Target opened there was no such thing as Zellers.

No, it was mostly the supply chain issues that sank Canadian Target.

[PRC]

Umm... Canadian Target took over Zellers.  When Canadian Target opened there was no such thing as Zellers.

No, it was mostly the supply chain issues that sank Canadian Target.

Exactly.  Canadian Target was Zellers.  Same products on the shelves, same store.  That was the issue.  We didn't need Zellers anymore because Wal-Mart was doing it better.  We needed American Target.  Did you ever go into an American Target?  It's an upscale Wal-Mart.  We didn't get American Target... we got Zellers.

[grumbler]

No matter the failure, all of them all have the same root cause : Thinking that they had no competition.

I can see why you are not a businessman! 

What's wrong with my statement? They announced 2 years in advance they were coming to Canada. What did you think Walmart & Canadian Tire did for those 2 years?

They were under the impression, their actions show that, that Canadians would flock to them has if they were bringing the knowledge of fire.

I think that they knew they had competition.  Your assertion that they thought "they had no competition", when they clearly had competition and had to have known it (as every business assumes that they have competition) shows that you know noting whatever about business.  If you had ever been a businessman and believed that businesses can think they have no competition, you surely are no businessman now.  Your statement is absurd.

[grumbler]

Brings back memories.  We did went to the Canadian department stores many times when we were there.  But my family mostly shopped at the Chinese stores.  My parents for example couldn't find a single pair of shoes that fit them - they were far too big.  They had to go to the children's section to buy shoes, no joke.  The stores were too huge, far too physically demanding to go from entry to exit.  They were too far from the city.  Chinese like to make frequent shopping trips to buy a small amount of stuff, not a small number of trips to buy lots of stuff.  The stores tried to give us lots of "financing" options, but we paid cash.  Too much DIY stuff when we paid someone to do that sort of thing.  The shelves were huge and we literally had problem reaching them.

I can understand that shopping mentality.  When I was living in England, they had the same mentality.  One didn't need a refrigerator because one bought one's food for each meal fresh from the shops.

[Monoriu]

If you go to a traditional Chinese wet market, and there are still plenty of those in Hong Kong, they still slaughter live chicken there.  You point your finger at a chicken, and they chop off its head right in front of you.  Then you take the corpse back home, without any ice.  Why?  Because you are expected to have it for dinner on the same day.  No need to chill it.  Chinese believe that food must be fresh, and by fresh, they mean the food must not be frozen or chilled in any way. 

So they have to go to the market every day.  That's what my mother did.  Whenever there is bad weather forecast, say a typhoon will hit the city in a few days, people have to rush to the markets to stock up, because there is hardly any food at home. 

[Monoriu]

Mono, there are plenty of Chinese people who shop at Costco.

You know what, if I were to live in Canada again, *I* will shop at Costco and Walmart. 

But my wife won't 

[Admiral Yi]

Exactly.  Canadian Target was Zellers.  Same products on the shelves, same store.  That was the issue.  We didn't need Zellers anymore because Wal-Mart was doing it better.  We needed American Target.  Did you ever go into an American Target?  It's an upscale Wal-Mart.  We didn't get American Target... we got Zellers.

this here makes it sound like you think they pitched their inventory too down-market.

[Josquius]

If you go to a traditional Chinese wet market, and there are still plenty of those in Hong Kong, they still slaughter live chicken there.  You point your finger at a chicken, and they chop off its head right in front of you.  Then you take the corpse back home, without any ice.  Why?  Because you are expected to have it for dinner on the same day.  No need to chill it.  Chinese believe that food must be fresh, and by fresh, they mean the food must not be frozen or chilled in any way. 

So they have to go to the market every day.  That's what my mother did.  Whenever there is bad weather forecast, say a typhoon will hit the city in a few days, people have to rush to the markets to stock up, because there is hardly any food at home. 

Seems odd China would have this culture considering the history of famines.

[celedhring]

I would say their basic mistake was trying to go "big bang" and do it all at once.

That almost never works when the thing you are trying to do is new to you.

Absolutely. I do some work on the side for a business school and the subject came out the other day; they all thought it was just crazy to go large scale in a new market you don't have experience in, particularly without local partners. Open a few in big cities, see how it works, get your know-how and logistics in order, go from there.

[Grey Fox]

Exactly.  Canadian Target was Zellers.  Same products on the shelves, same store.  That was the issue.  We didn't need Zellers anymore because Wal-Mart was doing it better.  We needed American Target.  Did you ever go into an American Target?  It's an upscale Wal-Mart.  We didn't get American Target... we got Zellers.

this here makes it sound like you think they pitched their inventory too down-market.

It's different in Canada because Wal-Mart positions itself a little more up-market than it's US version.

[Ideologue]

Target sucks.  It's Wal-mart for people who think they aren't poors, and they pass the expense on to you.

However, I've been forced into shopping at Target often, instead of Wal-mart (I mean, both are evil, but Wal-mart is cheaper) due to its proximity and the monstrous nature of urban traffic.