NCAA Football, 2016

[grumbler]

Jesus Christ ND sucks. The D is horrendous. Just about making a bowl at this point--and beating USC.

Yesterday Michigan re-took the lead in all-time winning percentage.  Thanks, Duke! 

I am as mystified by the collapse of ND's defense as its fans are.

[CountDeMoney]

Defense? Stopping the run? Forcing change of possession?  A Kelly craves none of these things.

[alfred russel]

Defense? Stopping the run? Forcing change of possession?  A Kelly craves none of these things.

A Kelly craves many other things. A fast paced offense, a QB successfully throwing the ball downfield, turning Notre Dame into Cincinnati circa 2008, jelly donuts, nearby people to yell at, and students in camera towers regardless of weather conditions.

[alfred russel]

I am as mystified by the collapse of ND's defense as its fans are.

I'm not perplexed at all. They suck at everything required to play good defense. They can't cover anyone; guys are running downfield open all over the place. They can't tackle. They can't rush the QB (1 sack all season). They can't generate turnovers (no fumbles all year--not even fumbles the offense recovered). They can't avoid blocks or get off them in the run game.

These guys are just bad at football. There was a ton of attrition from last year as guys left due to graduation / the NFL, and then there have been suspensions and injuries, and the guys taking the field are being asked to carry the load for the first time in their college career. And we are seeing they aren't good football players.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Les Miles has been shitcanned.

[alfred russel]

Les Miles has been shitcanned.

That seems dumb. If you were going to fire him after a 2-2 start, they should have fired him last year. I get that at LSU there are politics involved, and you don't have one guy making the decision.

Ed Orgeron as an interim coach is interesting--I think he would be a great coach for Georgia Tech after they fire Paul Johnson-Georgia Tech will be desperate for a good recruiter when moving away from the triple option, and if nothing else that is Ed Orgeron (and quite possibly there is nothing else). But he has seemed a bit off in some recent interviews I've seen, age and a hard life may be catching up with him. 8 games as an interim coach will be a good test if he has anything left in the tank.

Two great memories of Ed Orgeron at Ole Miss (wouldn't it be hilarious if LSU can beat them this year?):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX7wzhMvbzo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n1KPQmdddY

[grumbler]

I'm not perplexed at all. They suck at everything required to play good defense. They can't cover anyone; guys are running downfield open all over the place. They can't tackle. They can't rush the QB (1 sack all season). They can't generate turnovers (no fumbles all year--not even fumbles the offense recovered). They can't avoid blocks or get off them in the run game.

These guys are just bad at football. There was a ton of attrition from last year as guys left due to graduation / the NFL, and then there have been suspensions and injuries, and the guys taking the field are being asked to carry the load for the first time in their college career. And we are seeing they aren't good football players.

The predictions I saw all said that ND's defense was going to be better this year than last year.  What you describe are symptoms of the collapse, not causes of the collapse.  They had a lot of attrition, but lots of teams had a lot of attrition - that's part of the game.  They have a lot of returning players with a reasonable number of snaps.

Kelly clearly hope that it was coaching.  I guess we'll see.

[alfred russel]

The predictions I saw all said that ND's defense was going to be better this year than last year.  What you describe are symptoms of the collapse, not causes of the collapse.  They had a lot of attrition, but lots of teams had a lot of attrition - that's part of the game.  They have a lot of returning players with a reasonable number of snaps.

Kelly clearly hope that it was coaching.  I guess we'll see.

What I'm describing is that the 11 guys lining up to play defense are not good at football. I think that is a root cause, not a symptom.

Maybe the defense will be fired up (out of embarrassment) to play better next week, but I fully expect them to be a weakness the rest of the year. This is the opposite of a historically scrub team with 2 and 3 star recruits giving some power teams scares (or even defeats), and then 7 years later you are watching the game on ESPN classic and realize they had a few future all pros at key positions.

Maybe the defense will play better with more experience, maybe some schematic things will slow the bleeding, and maybe new coaches will help player development. But I think the ultimate fixes to the defense are in high school right now.

[Ed Anger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n1KPQmdddY

YAW YAW YAW YAW, FOOTBALL!

[grumbler]

What I'm describing is that the 11 guys lining up to play defense are not good at football. I think that is a root cause, not a symptom.

Maybe the defense will be fired up (out of embarrassment) to play better next week, but I fully expect them to be a weakness the rest of the year. This is the opposite of a historically scrub team with 2 and 3 star recruits giving some power teams scares (or even defeats), and then 7 years later you are watching the game on ESPN classic and realize they had a few future all pros at key positions.

Maybe the defense will play better with more experience, maybe some schematic things will slow the bleeding, and maybe new coaches will help player development. But I think the ultimate fixes to the defense are in high school right now.

Yes, they are not very good at football (duh!), but that isn't because they lack physical skills.  The team has plenty of talent, it just isn't performing.  Now, you seem to argue that they just happened to recruit a whole bunch of guys that refuse to harness their talents, but I think that that is unlikely.  I suspect that the defensive collapse is due to something other than just rolling snakeyes in recruiting 22 times in a row.

[alfred russel]

Yes, they are not very good at football (duh!), but that isn't because they lack physical skills.  The team has plenty of talent, it just isn't performing.  Now, you seem to argue that they just happened to recruit a whole bunch of guys that refuse to harness their talents, but I think that that is unlikely.  I suspect that the defensive collapse is due to something other than just rolling snakeyes in recruiting 22 times in a row.

There is a lot more to it. ND gets good recruiting rankings, but the good recruits skew toward the offense under Kelly. I've always felt that ND's recruiting rankings get overrated because of the way it recruits nationally (stars get given out based on measurables and how the guys play in high school games at ages 15-16, but coaches near a player will likely know more, and adjust recruiting accordingly--ie, if there are two 4 star guys in Georgia, and UGA and Notre Dame both take one, I'd suspect more times than not UGA gets the better one).

But also recruiting is just a crapshoot. The ND guys on defense may have solid measurables and lots of high school stars, but those stars were generally set when the players were 15-16 judging how they played against high schoolers. Lots of guys don't adjust to the speed and challenges of the college game, and it isn't just coaching or guys "refusing to harness their talents". I don't think it is coming up snake eyes on a bunch of recruits (odds of that 1 in 36), but more like coming up on the wrong end of a coin toss.

BVG can coach guys up--he has in the past. He just failed with this group. Hopefully another guy will do better, but I don't expect miracles.     

[CountDeMoney]

Les Miles has been shitcanned.

I'm going to miss that guy.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Les Miles has been shitcanned.

I'm going to miss that guy.

I'm sure he'll be back somewhere (assuming he wants to).

[Berkut]

I am kind of amazed you would fire a guy who won a national title recently. Sort of recently.

[grumbler]

I am kind of amazed you would fire a guy who won a national title recently. Sort of recently.

They were talking about firing him at the end of last season.  I think the LSU AD expected les to retire in the offseason.  Les didn't though - maybe, in part, because he has a huge buyout (that's the rumor) and wanted to get fired so as to get the buyout.

It's clear that Les is less, now, and his departure was inevitable.  How that played out, and who played who, will become clear over time.