Hillary vs Bernie

[Phillip V]

There's also the fact that she leveraged her position as first lady of Arkansas into a partnership in a locally important law firm.

This is not intended as a defense of Hillary, but it was my impression that relatives of important politicians in the US tend to sit on boards and do well in various areas of business related to politics. F. ex. I would expect that plenty of Bushes sit on boards and have had opportunities to join companies that benefit from political contacts for example. I guess it's less common for it to be the wife rather than the sons, daughters, and siblings though.

... or is this perception off?

That's been the rule throughout history.  Most recently, it was not a coincidence that Michelle Obama got a ~$300K/yr Vice President of Community Affairs position right after Barack got elected to the U.S. Senate.  She also got added to a major Walmart supplier's Board of Directors for an additional ~$50K/yr.

[LaCroix]

That was the sacrifice she made to marry Bill Clinton, leave the East Coast, and follow him to Arkansas.  Hillary Rodham would have been quite successful on her own, but not world domination successful.

she had no idea that the guy she married would become president... her sacrifice was, at the time, just that -- she sacrificed her own career for marriage, then did the best she could with the hand she was dealt. and she kept doing the best she could with each new hand, until now: presidency.

[Razgovory]

There's also the fact that she leveraged her position as first lady of Arkansas into a partnership in a locally important law firm.

This is not intended as a defense of Hillary, but it was my impression that relatives of important politicians in the US tend to sit on boards and do well in various areas of business related to politics. F. ex. I would expect that plenty of Bushes sit on boards and have had opportunities to join companies that benefit from political contacts for example. I guess it's less common for it to be the wife rather than the sons, daughters, and siblings though.

... or is this perception off?

That's been the rule throughout history.  Most recently, it was not a coincidence that Michelle Obama got a ~$300K/yr Vice President of Community Affairs position right after Barack got elected to the U.S. Senate.  She also got added to a major Walmart supplier's Board of Directors for an additional ~$50K/yr.

Not quite, but whatever.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/michelle-obamas-salary/

[Admiral Yi]

she's a yale law school grad, worked at rose law firm as an associate, and eventually became partner. though, wasn't able to find how long she was associate. also, the firm has 32 attorneys -- it's not very big, and it doesn't seem to be an elite boutique firm, either. this doesn't seem like "leveraged her position as first lady of Arkansas into a partnership." while I'm sure her family's connections helped, what else is a professional woman interested in her own career to do? take a mediocre job and haul ass for a decade out of principle?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Law_Firm

My impression, supported by this wiki article is that Rose is *the* firm for big clients litigating issues with the state government.

All it says about her making partner is "soon."

[Admiral Yi]

Not quite, but whatever.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/michelle-obamas-salary/

What part are you disputing?  "Right after Obama was elected state senator?"  Your own link says she made 316K.

[Phillip V]

That was the sacrifice she made to marry Bill Clinton, leave the East Coast, and follow him to Arkansas.  Hillary Rodham would have been quite successful on her own, but not world domination successful.

she had no idea that the guy she married would become president... her sacrifice was, at the time, just that -- she sacrificed her own career for marriage, then did the best she could with the hand she was dealt. and she kept doing the best she could with each new hand, until now: presidency.

No.  It has been well-documented via research and interviews that Bill was planning for the Presidency throughout his teens and college years, and Hillary told people he would be President before marrying him as people continually hassled her about why she was wasting her time with a womanizing Southern hick.  Both their lives have been very well calculated, even with the sexual issues.

You don't get to be the youngest Governor in the nation and then one of the youngest Presidents ever by having no idea what you are doing and having a wife/partner who has no idea what you are doing.

[Razgovory]

Not quite, but whatever.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/michelle-obamas-salary/

What part are you disputing?  "Right after Obama was elected state senator?"  Your own link says she made 316K.

He said she made 300/k a year.  Not 300k in one year.  There's a difference.

[LaCroix]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Law_Firm

My impression, supported by this wiki article is that Rose is *the* firm for big clients litigating issues with the state government.

All it says about her making partner is "soon."

yeah, I saw the same wiki page. I'm sure this middling arkansas firm does well for itself, but that doesn't mean it's elite or the best in the state. besides, as mentioned, she had pretty great credentials given that she came from yale. the legal field is utterly obsessed with prestige. hell, some drunk harvard grad could maybe walk into the best north dakota firm and land a job.

actually, clinton's wiki page shows she joined in 1977 and was made partner in 1979 (after bill became governor). between graduating in 1973 until 1977, she had a pretty strong career (including being a law professor). makes sense that the partners would want to snatch her up and keep her with the firm -- she was very clearly on the rise. this is way different than "leverag[ing] her position as first lady of Arkansas."

@phil 

[Admiral Yi]

yeah, I saw the same wiki page. I'm sure this middling arkansas firm does well for itself, but that doesn't mean it's elite or the best in the state. besides, as mentioned, she had pretty great credentials given that she came from yale. the legal field is utterly obsessed with prestige. hell, some drunk harvard grad could maybe walk into the best north dakota firm and land a job.

actually, clinton's wiki page shows she joined in 1977 and was made partner in 1979 (after bill became governor). between graduating in 1973 until 1977, she had a pretty strong career (including being a law professor). makes sense that the partners would want to snatch her up and keep her with the firm -- she was very clearly on the rise. this is way different than "leverag[ing] her position as first lady of Arkansas."

@phil 

So you read that Rose is "the ultimate establishment law firm" and conclude it's a middling firm, then you read she made partner after two years, in the same year Bill was elected governor, and conclude that's way different than leveraging her position.

Might it be time to cut your losses?  And consider a different career field?  Maybe criminal defense? 

[grumbler]

So you read that Rose is "the ultimate establishment law firm" and conclude it's a middling firm, then you read she made partner after two years, in the same year Bill was elected governor, and conclude that's way different than leveraging her position.

Might it be time to cut your losses?  And consider a different career field?  Maybe criminal defense? 

I think you may well be putting too much stock in a wiki article by some anonymous guy on the internet.  I think LaCroix is overstating the chances that HRC would have made partner at Rose by 1878 had she not been married to the governor, but the "the ultimate establishment law firm" is from Carl Bernstein in a bio of HRC, not the evaluation of someone who would necessarily know an "ultimate establishment law firm" if it bit him in the ass.  I bet AmScip could say with more assurance whether it was a step up or down for HRC in 1977.

[DGuller]

I think LaCroix is overstating the chances that HRC would have made partner at Rose by 1878 had she not been married to the governor,

I guess when you live long enough, centuries just all blend together.

[Valmy]

Yeah, it is absolutely par for the course (so to speak) for a law firm to take someone's significant connections into account, because connections are how law firms get clients, and getting clients is how firms make money. Not really remarkable - that's just the way of the world.

I know Canadians would never tolerate a politician leveraging family connections to reach high office.

[Eddie Teach]

I think you may well be putting too much stock in a wiki article by some anonymous guy on the internet.  I think LaCroix is overstating the chances that HRC would have made partner at Rose by 1878 had she not been married to the governor, but the "the ultimate establishment law firm" is from Carl Bernstein in a bio of HRC, not the evaluation of someone who would necessarily know an "ultimate establishment law firm" if it bit him in the ass.  I bet AmScip could say with more assurance whether it was a step up or down for HRC in 1977.

I would expect him to be able to give a couple paragraphs description of all the major Washington firms.

[viper37]

Yeah, it is absolutely par for the course (so to speak) for a law firm to take someone's significant connections into account, because connections are how law firms get clients, and getting clients is how firms make money. Not really remarkable - that's just the way of the world.

I know Canadians would never tolerate a politician leveraging family connections to reach high office.

yes, we're totally not like that.

[LaCroix]

I think LaCroix is overstating the chances that HRC would have made partner at Rose by 1878 had she not been married to the governor

oh, I think the partners' decision to fast-track her to partner was absolutely influenced by bill's governorship. what I'm saying is that she definitely had credentials where that wasn't the craziest move ever. remember, the claim was that she leveraged her first ladyship to become partner.