Are date rape drugs an urban myth?

[Razgovory]

Why leave it at girls?  Why not give the advice to gays as well?  No gay man may approach another gay man if the one of the parties is drunk.

For the purpose of having sex? Sure, it's dumb to just do so - most HIV infections happen that way.

But is it rape?

[Tonitrus]

Whichever one is on top is the rapist, I guess?

Whoever goes to the police first.

[The Brain]

Whichever one is on top is the rapist, I guess?

Whoever goes to the police first.

Fuck da police?

[Tonitrus]

Whichever one is on top is the rapist, I guess?

Whoever goes to the police first.

Fuck da police?

Just not when they're drunk.

[crazy canuck]

It still shifts the blame somewhat, I think. After all, a lot of that advice is something one cannot control - you can get drunk "to excess" even if you don't intend to; sometimes you don't have friends to go out with.

How about instead telling people that if you see a drunk girl being approach by a guy, intervene, even if you don't know either of them? If you see your guy friend hit on a drunk girl he doesn't know, intervene. Tell boys not to try to have sex with a girl they just met. Etc.

I don't think it's blame-shifting any more than telling people to lock their car doors is.

And counting on the good actions of strangers is unlikely to be successful.  People need to take control over what they can to protect themselves.

And I would absolutely tell my boys not to have sex with a girl they just met - and it has little to do with them potentially being accused of committing sex assaults.

There is not much difference between saying girls shouldnt drink in public and saying girls need to be careful about not dressing in a way that makes boys want to rape them - or wearing perfume...

[Barrister]

It still shifts the blame somewhat, I think. After all, a lot of that advice is something one cannot control - you can get drunk "to excess" even if you don't intend to; sometimes you don't have friends to go out with.

How about instead telling people that if you see a drunk girl being approach by a guy, intervene, even if you don't know either of them? If you see your guy friend hit on a drunk girl he doesn't know, intervene. Tell boys not to try to have sex with a girl they just met. Etc.

I don't think it's blame-shifting any more than telling people to lock their car doors is.

And counting on the good actions of strangers is unlikely to be successful.  People need to take control over what they can to protect themselves.

And I would absolutely tell my boys not to have sex with a girl they just met - and it has little to do with them potentially being accused of committing sex assaults.

There is not much difference between saying girls shouldnt drink in public and saying girls need to be careful about not dressing in a way that makes boys want to rape them - or wearing perfume...

No, I think there's a pretty clear difference.

Drinking to excess makes you less able to protect yourself.  How you dress does not.

[Malthus]

It still shifts the blame somewhat, I think. After all, a lot of that advice is something one cannot control - you can get drunk "to excess" even if you don't intend to; sometimes you don't have friends to go out with.

How about instead telling people that if you see a drunk girl being approach by a guy, intervene, even if you don't know either of them? If you see your guy friend hit on a drunk girl he doesn't know, intervene. Tell boys not to try to have sex with a girl they just met. Etc.

I don't think it's blame-shifting any more than telling people to lock their car doors is.

And counting on the good actions of strangers is unlikely to be successful.  People need to take control over what they can to protect themselves.

And I would absolutely tell my boys not to have sex with a girl they just met - and it has little to do with them potentially being accused of committing sex assaults.

There is not much difference between saying girls shouldnt drink in public and saying girls need to be careful about not dressing in a way that makes boys want to rape them - or wearing perfume...

He didn't say girls shouldn't drink in public. He said they shouldn't drink to excess (or if you do, make sure you have your friends around), and clarified that boys shouldn't either.

Sounds sensible enough to me - I always tried to do that when I was wasted: never do it alone.

[crazy canuck]

It still shifts the blame somewhat, I think. After all, a lot of that advice is something one cannot control - you can get drunk "to excess" even if you don't intend to; sometimes you don't have friends to go out with.

How about instead telling people that if you see a drunk girl being approach by a guy, intervene, even if you don't know either of them? If you see your guy friend hit on a drunk girl he doesn't know, intervene. Tell boys not to try to have sex with a girl they just met. Etc.

I don't think it's blame-shifting any more than telling people to lock their car doors is.

And counting on the good actions of strangers is unlikely to be successful.  People need to take control over what they can to protect themselves.

And I would absolutely tell my boys not to have sex with a girl they just met - and it has little to do with them potentially being accused of committing sex assaults.

There is not much difference between saying girls shouldnt drink in public and saying girls need to be careful about not dressing in a way that makes boys want to rape them - or wearing perfume...

No, I think there's a pretty clear difference.

Drinking to excess makes you less able to protect yourself.  How you dress does not.

In both cases your logic is that the girl is making herself a target.

[crazy canuck]

It still shifts the blame somewhat, I think. After all, a lot of that advice is something one cannot control - you can get drunk "to excess" even if you don't intend to; sometimes you don't have friends to go out with.

How about instead telling people that if you see a drunk girl being approach by a guy, intervene, even if you don't know either of them? If you see your guy friend hit on a drunk girl he doesn't know, intervene. Tell boys not to try to have sex with a girl they just met. Etc.

I don't think it's blame-shifting any more than telling people to lock their car doors is.

And counting on the good actions of strangers is unlikely to be successful.  People need to take control over what they can to protect themselves.

And I would absolutely tell my boys not to have sex with a girl they just met - and it has little to do with them potentially being accused of committing sex assaults.

There is not much difference between saying girls shouldnt drink in public and saying girls need to be careful about not dressing in a way that makes boys want to rape them - or wearing perfume...

He didn't say girls shouldn't drink in public. He said they shouldn't drink to excess (or if you do, make sure you have your friends around), and clarified that boys shouldn't either.

Sounds sensible enough to me - I always tried to do that when I was wasted: never do it alone.

Ok, girls should not drink to excess in public.  Why the special rule?  The logic is they have to be careful not to make themselves a target.  The real issue is there are males out there who seem buy into that logic and believe that if she has made herself a target then sex is ok.

I think the feminists are correct that sort of logic should be rejected.

[Valmy]

In both cases your logic is that the girl is making herself a target.

You can get into plenty of trouble getting wasted in public among strangers that does not involve actually getting victimized though.

I think the feminists are correct that sort of logic should be rejected.

Indeed. But BB has not said it is alright to have sex with drunk people anywhere so...

[crazy canuck]

You can get into plenty of trouble getting wasted in public among strangers that does not involve actually getting victimized though.

Ok, but this thread is about rape.

But BB has not said it is alright to have sex with drunk people anywhere so..

.

Sure, but what he does say is similar to saying that girls shouldnt be raped but they should be careful about how they dress.

[frunk]

In both cases your logic is that the girl is making herself a target.

Don't think of it as making her/he/it a target, thinking of it as taking a risk.  Smoking increases risk for lung cancer, but people still do it.  If they get cancer they'll get treatment the same as anyone else.  It may not be wise behavior to get wasted on drugs in public without someone to watch out for you, but in no way does it excuse the actions of anybody that takes advantage.  The perpetrators are fully to blame and should be prosecuted the same.

[Barrister]

It still shifts the blame somewhat, I think. After all, a lot of that advice is something one cannot control - you can get drunk "to excess" even if you don't intend to; sometimes you don't have friends to go out with.

How about instead telling people that if you see a drunk girl being approach by a guy, intervene, even if you don't know either of them? If you see your guy friend hit on a drunk girl he doesn't know, intervene. Tell boys not to try to have sex with a girl they just met. Etc.

I don't think it's blame-shifting any more than telling people to lock their car doors is.

And counting on the good actions of strangers is unlikely to be successful.  People need to take control over what they can to protect themselves.

And I would absolutely tell my boys not to have sex with a girl they just met - and it has little to do with them potentially being accused of committing sex assaults.

There is not much difference between saying girls shouldnt drink in public and saying girls need to be careful about not dressing in a way that makes boys want to rape them - or wearing perfume...

No, I think there's a pretty clear difference.

Drinking to excess makes you less able to protect yourself.  How you dress does not.

In both cases your logic is that the girl is making herself a target.

Well that's the thing - there is no logic behind "dressing sluttily makes you more likely to be raped".  There's no evidence to suggest that is remotely true.

Rape is almost exclusively a crime of opportunity.  A rapist doesn't go looking for the prettiest, or even the sluttiest, girl to rape.  He looks for the easiest girl to rape.

And the easiest girl to rape is one that you already have access to (remember most victims know their rapist), or who is under the influence, or better yet, both.

If there was evidence to suggest that low cut shirts = more rape, I would tell people to cover 'em up.  Just as I'd tell people not to wave big wads of cash in public at night in certain parts of town.

[crazy canuck]

If there was evidence to suggest that low cut shirts = more rape, I would tell people to cover 'em up. 

See Valmy, BB actually made the point for me as I was posting my response to you.  He just doesnt see that his logic is what, in part, contributes to males thinking that the women really does want it.

[Malthus]

Ok, girls should not drink to excess in public.  Why the special rule?

I thought I just noted he made it clear it isn't a "special rule". No-one should drink to excess without their friends around. Would it make any difference if this strategy protected you against being "rolled"? 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drunk+rolling

the act of taking the wallets of drunks passed out in bar parking lots.

last night i went drunk rolling i made $2000

If someone got "rolled", the robber is the guilty party. That doesn't stop the best defense against being "rolled" is not to be passed out drunk, alone, in a parking lot - does it?

The logic is they have to be careful not to make themselves a target.  The real issue is there are males out there who seem buy into that logic and believe that if she has made herself a target then sex is ok.

I think the feminists are correct that sort of logic should be rejected.

Strikes me as a bizarre 'refutation' of that sort of logic, to claim one shouldn't take good advice.

"Some men just think they can just rob and rape drunk people if they are alone and vulnerable! I'll show them - I'll get just as drink and vulnerable as I please!"