Are date rape drugs an urban myth?

[Martinus]

I have seen wildly different views on this online and there seems to be no conclusive authority.

[Malthus]

My suspicion is that their use is wildly over-reported, and the typical effects of alcohol mistaken for them. But I have no actual knowledge of that. Maybe BB would know. 

[The Brain]

My suspicion is that their use is wildly over-reported, and the typical effects of alcohol mistaken for them. But I have no actual knowledge of that. Maybe BB would know.

Just what are you implying, Sir?

[Razgovory]

No.

[DGuller]

I'm skeptical.  Have they actually worked for anyone here?

[Barrister]

Yes and no.

The idea that someone is going to slip a drug (like rohypnol or GHB) into a woman's drink in order to facilitate sexual assault is pretty rare.  I think I've seen one file, ever, where that looked like that was happening.

But alcohol is a drug too.  The idea of a man giving alcohol to a woman, or pouring overly-strong drinks, with an ultimate end of forcing sex when she's unable to consent is distressingly common.

[DGuller]

Yes and no.

The idea that someone is going to slip a drug (like rohypnol or GHB) into a woman's drink in order to facilitate sexual assault is pretty rare.  I think I've seen one file, ever, where that looked like that was happening.

But alcohol is a drug too.  The idea of a man giving alcohol to a woman, or pouring overly-strong drinks, with an ultimate end of forcing sex when she's unable to consent is distressingly common.

How does that "unable to consent" work with alcohol?  Does having sex with a woman that is above a certain BAC level automatically make you a rapist, absent a notarized statement from earlier that day granting consent for that night?

[Barrister]

Yes and no.

The idea that someone is going to slip a drug (like rohypnol or GHB) into a woman's drink in order to facilitate sexual assault is pretty rare.  I think I've seen one file, ever, where that looked like that was happening.

But alcohol is a drug too.  The idea of a man giving alcohol to a woman, or pouring overly-strong drinks, with an ultimate end of forcing sex when she's unable to consent is distressingly common.

How does that "unable to consent" work with alcohol?  Does having sex with a woman that is above a certain BAC level automatically make you a rapist, absent a notarized statement from earlier that day granting consent for that night?

There's no magic BAC level, but if a woman is unable to consent (not just that her reasoning is impaired, but that she is unable to give consent) then yes, having sex with her makes you a rapist.

[HVC]

I don't know how common it is, and BB says it's rare and I'll take his judgement, but I was with a friend when I believe she was slipped something. She went from fine to like sloppy drunk incoherent in two drinks at a party.

[DGuller]

Yes and no.

The idea that someone is going to slip a drug (like rohypnol or GHB) into a woman's drink in order to facilitate sexual assault is pretty rare.  I think I've seen one file, ever, where that looked like that was happening.

But alcohol is a drug too.  The idea of a man giving alcohol to a woman, or pouring overly-strong drinks, with an ultimate end of forcing sex when she's unable to consent is distressingly common.

How does that "unable to consent" work with alcohol?  Does having sex with a woman that is above a certain BAC level automatically make you a rapist, absent a notarized statement from earlier that day granting consent for that night?

There's no magic BAC level, but if a woman is unable to consent (not just that her reasoning is impaired, but that she is unable to give consent) then yes, having sex with her makes you a rapist.

That's a tautological answer.  Obviously sex with someone unable to consent is one of the definitions of rape.  But what is meant by "unable to give consent"?  Unconscious?  Or "obviously she's too drunk to rationally evaluate the consequences of giving consent"?

[Razgovory]

Depends on what you look like and how much money you make.

[Barrister]

Yes and no.

The idea that someone is going to slip a drug (like rohypnol or GHB) into a woman's drink in order to facilitate sexual assault is pretty rare.  I think I've seen one file, ever, where that looked like that was happening.

But alcohol is a drug too.  The idea of a man giving alcohol to a woman, or pouring overly-strong drinks, with an ultimate end of forcing sex when she's unable to consent is distressingly common.

How does that "unable to consent" work with alcohol?  Does having sex with a woman that is above a certain BAC level automatically make you a rapist, absent a notarized statement from earlier that day granting consent for that night?

There's no magic BAC level, but if a woman is unable to consent (not just that her reasoning is impaired, but that she is unable to give consent) then yes, having sex with her makes you a rapist.

That's a tautological answer.  Obviously sex with someone unable to consent is one of the definitions of rape.  But what is meant by "unable to give consent"?  Unconscious?  Or "obviously she's too drunk to rationally evaluate the consequences of giving consent"?

Ultimately it's a question for the trier of fact to decide, based on all the circumstances.  It's not just unconscious, but it's something closer to unconscious than it is to fully sober.  It's not agreeing to something you later regret - it's more like not knowing what is even happening, not being able to speak coherently.

[Josquius]

My mother used to have the idea that people randomly slipped them into any drink whose owner wasn't paying full attention.  Pfff.

I'll go with malthus. "I was drugged!!" Does sound like a very good excuse vs "i drunk too much. Lol" yet nonetheless they certainly exist. 

[Barrister]

I don't know how common it is, and BB says it's rare and I'll take his judgement, but I was with a friend when I believe she was slipped something. She went from fine to like sloppy drunk incoherent in two drinks at a party.

I'm not a scientist, and I've done no studies.  I'm just speaking from my own anecdotal experience (albeit that experience does include a lot of sexual assault prosecutions).

The thing is though it doesn't make much sense for someone to just randomly slip your friend some drugs.  Unless that person is already in a position of trust with the girl (and is thus able to take advantage of her later) there's no real incentive to slip a stranger some drugs.  Besides alcohol can have an unusually strong effect on a person - combine it with empty stomach, tiredness, or other drugs (prescription or otherwise).

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yes and no.

The idea that someone is going to slip a drug (like rohypnol or GHB) into a woman's drink in order to facilitate sexual assault is pretty rare.  I think I've seen one file, ever, where that looked like that was happening.

But alcohol is a drug too.  The idea of a man giving alcohol to a woman, or pouring overly-strong drinks, with an ultimate end of forcing sex when she's unable to consent is distressingly common.

How does that "unable to consent" work with alcohol?  Does having sex with a woman that is above a certain BAC level automatically make you a rapist, absent a notarized statement from earlier that day granting consent for that night?

There's no magic BAC level, but if a woman is unable to consent (not just that her reasoning is impaired, but that she is unable to give consent) then yes, having sex with her makes you a rapist.

What if the man is just as drunk as the woman?