Terrorist insurrection against the US Government? OK as long as you're white

[Berkut]

They're about as respectable as Scientology.

Yeah...no.

[garbon]

Right? Scientology at least has Hollywood endorsement.

[grumbler]

I don't know. Arson will land you in the can over here too, although not five years (unless there's been danger of personal injury).

If there has a mandatory five-year prison sentence for burning some grass on starting a fire to cover a crime, using accelerants, and putting the lives and property of others at grave risk on government-owned property, then there's legislators are morons, too.

There, fixed it for you.

The prosecutors weren't able to prove that they were covering up a crime.

None of those are required elements for the mandatory five-year minimum senetence I was referring to, either, but when Raz is white-knighting, the best response is to just ignore him while he ignores facts.  Just assume that when he claims to "fix' things he has fucked them up.

[Razgovory]

White knighting.   Thanks Marty.

[Eddie Teach]

Yes, clearly in this case you are the Black Knight. The White Knight is coming to somebody's defense. 

[Razgovory]

Yes, clearly in this case you are the Black Knight. The White Knight is coming to somebody's defense. 

I thought the White Knight was the guy who took the women's side in arguments in the vain hope of getting laid.  But your definition is good as well.  Grumbler's argument has some merit, (not about knights about the sentencing), mandatory sentencing can be bad, but not always.  I mean that is how we define the concept of "Felony".  Arson is a serious crime and this one had quite a few aggravating circumstances (cover up a crime, happened in front of a minor, nearly killed the minor, destruction of federal property).  That it makes libertarians, and militia scum squirm is just delicious.  In Ferguson one of the BLM leaders was convicted of arson for starting a fire in a convenient market (which was quickly put out, by onlookers), I was fine with that.  If the fucking Bundy clan wants to protest that guy's imprisonment while they are at it, they are more then welcome to try an armed take over Police property in St. Louis county.

[grumbler]

Yes, clearly in this case you are the Black Knight. The White Knight is coming to somebody's defense. 

Raz is rushing to defend the mandatory minimum sentence that I criticize (and, by implication, the federal lawmakers who passed it).  He may be also attacking the Bundy gang and/or the Hammonds, but no one is defending them as far as I know.

[LaCroix]

minimum sentencing can get pretty ugly when the prosecutor decides to indict you on (1) arson and (2) using fire to commit a felony. 5+10 minimum years in prison.

[Razgovory]

Yes, clearly in this case you are the Black Knight. The White Knight is coming to somebody's defense. 

Raz is rushing to defend the mandatory minimum sentence that I criticize (and, by implication, the federal lawmakers who passed it).  He may be also attacking the Bundy gang and/or the Hammonds, but no one is defending them as far as I know.

I do not wish to have sex with said unknown lawmakers, also I'm mostly attacking you, because you are an easy target.

[mongers]

Good job these guys didn't accidentally burn a couple of fence posts, one of which had fallen across the other, when they set fire to the grass, otherwise more people would have been outrages, whilst perhaps other gave them greater approval.

[grumbler]

minimum sentencing can get pretty ugly when the prosecutor decides to indict you on (1) arson and (2) using fire to commit a felony. 5+10 minimum years in prison.

I don't know that the latter exists under federal law.

The Hammonds would have been charged with a misdemeanor (if they had been charged at all) had this not been federal land they were leasing.  Federal law doesn't recognize, in this case, differences in severity of the crime (any arson at all on federal land is a felony with a mandatory five-year-minimum prison term).  That's just dumb, no matter how much the white knights want to pretend that their precious congress couldn't make dumb laws.

There's no good reason for federal law on arson to be out of whack with the rest of the federal laws, except some congressman probably needed to buy some votes from some firefighters' association and so waved around his needle dick and declared War on Arson.  The Hammonds seem to have done some minor-level foolish stuff and just got caught up in Congressional asshattery.

[Razgovory]

Awww, this has really got your libertarian feathers ruffled, doesn't it?  "White Knights", "needle dicks",    From what I can tell they were charged under an Anti-Terrorism law introduced by in the 1990's in response to terrorism by anti-government activists!  So it turns out the Hammonds fell afoul a law that was meant to stop the militia fucks that are now protesting.

[The Minsky Moment]

There's no good reason for federal law on arson to be out of whack with the rest of the federal laws, except some congressman probably needed to buy some votes from some firefighters' association and so waved around his needle dick and declared War on Arson.

More likely a bunch of reps wanted to seem "tough on crime" and so signed onto crime bills that imposed mandatory minimums all over the federal criminal code, without much thought about the particular application to arson.

[Razgovory]

There's no good reason for federal law on arson to be out of whack with the rest of the federal laws, except some congressman probably needed to buy some votes from some firefighters' association and so waved around his needle dick and declared War on Arson.

More likely a bunch of reps wanted to seem "tough on crime" and so signed onto crime bills that imposed mandatory minimums all over the federal criminal code, without much thought about the particular application to arson.

I believe this the law in question.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiterrorism_and_Effective_Death_Penalty_Act_of_1996  Generally I'm not in favor of mandatory minimums (though they have a long history in this country), but by happy accident fell on someone who really did deserve it.  The west seems to always be engulfed in wild fires, setting one (actually two) off deliberately strikes me as something we really want to curtail.

[The Minsky Moment]

Awww, this has really got your libertarian feathers ruffled, doesn't it?  "White Knights", "needle dicks",    From what I can tell they were charged under an Anti-Terrorism law introduced by in the 1990's in response to terrorism by anti-government activists!  So it turns out the Hammonds fell afoul a law that was meant to stop the militia fucks that are now protesting.

You are talking about AEDPA.  Which despite the "anti-terrorism" in the name and the proximity to the OK City bombings was really a broad-based crime bill to bolster the "tough on crime" credentials of its backers.  The part of the law that increased sentences for arsons had already been proposed in an earlier crime bill - the name was changed and few provisions added right after OK City to make it seem responsive and topical.