We're fucked. Resistance to last-resort antibiotic has now spread across globe

[crazy canuck]

Good and bad.  There is a possible solution but I am doubtful consumers will stop buying medicated meat in large enough numbers to change the industry in North America or elsewhere.

Um if medicated meat is going to endanger all of our lives I am pretty sure we will. And why wouldn't a major health crisis not be regulated?

Yeah, that's the point Valmy.  Why hasn't it been regulated?

[Valmy]

Yeah, that's the point Valmy.  Why hasn't it been regulated?

This is not common knowledge. But if this is true then surely it cannot go on much longer. I have heard a big public discussion on over-prescribing anti-biotics and how important it is you use the entire prescription. I have never heard anybody say this was about livestock before.

If nobody is talking about it it is kind of hard for the consumers to stop buying the meat isn't it?

[Valmy]

Before you start looking at China, take a closer look at what is happening in the US.  Everyone is using industrial meat production. I think it is going to take a serious outbreak of an untreatable strain of bacteria before that is stopped.

We have been using large scale industrial meat production long before anti-biotics were a thing though.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, that's the point Valmy.  Why hasn't it been regulated?

This is not common knowledge. But if this is true then surely it cannot go on much longer. I have heard a big public discussion on over-prescribing anti-biotics and how important it is you use the entire prescription. I have never heard anybody say this was about livestock before.

Its been true and has been talked about for at least the last 20 years.  But its like global warming.  Scientists had been warning about it for years but nobody really starting paying attention until the general public began to actually experience the effects of 1 in 100 year storms happening regularly.

[crazy canuck]

Before you start looking at China, take a closer look at what is happening in the US.  Everyone is using industrial meat production. I think it is going to take a serious outbreak of an untreatable strain of bacteria before that is stopped.

We have been using large scale industrial meat production long before anti-biotics were a thing though.

Really?  What do you have in mind?

[Valmy]

Yeah, that's the point Valmy.  Why hasn't it been regulated?

This is not common knowledge. But if this is true then surely it cannot go on much longer. I have heard a big public discussion on over-prescribing anti-biotics and how important it is you use the entire prescription. I have never heard anybody say this was about livestock before.

Its been true and has been talked about for at least the last 20 years.  But its like global warming.  Scientists had been warning about it for years but nobody really starting paying attention until the general public began to actually experience the effects of 1 in 100 year storms happening regularly.

Not in anyway I personally have noticed and I remember talking about Global Warming, and having it be a subject of public discussion, in the early 90s so it is not getting anywhere near the play of Global Warming. As I said it has not even been brought up when discussing anti-biotics. I always hear the doctors being blamed for over-prescribing, which goes well with the general paranoia over big pharma. If scientists are united about this why aren't we seeing doctors and health professionals making noise and the FDA taking action?

Having said that all the meat I get notes it was not made using anti-biotics, but I had never heard the significance. So I guess I was helping out before I even knew the problem.

[crazy canuck]

Having said that all the meat I get notes it was not made using anti-biotics, but I had never heard the significance. So I guess I was helping out before I even knew the problem.

[Berkut]

Yeah, that's the point Valmy.  Why hasn't it been regulated?

This is not common knowledge. But if this is true then surely it cannot go on much longer. I have heard a big public discussion on over-prescribing anti-biotics and how important it is you use the entire prescription. I have never heard anybody say this was about livestock before.

Its been true and has been talked about for at least the last 20 years.  But its like global warming.  Scientists had been warning about it for years but nobody really starting paying attention until the general public began to actually experience the effects of 1 in 100 year storms happening regularly.

Not in anyway I personally have noticed and I remember talking about Global Warming, and having it be a subject of public discussion, in the early 90s so it is not getting anywhere near the play of Global Warming. As I said it has not even been brought up when discussing anti-biotics. I always hear the doctors being blamed for over-prescribing, which goes well with the general paranoia over big pharma. If scientists are united about this why aren't we seeing doctors and health professionals making noise and the FDA taking action?

I am with Valmy here - I've heard a lot about the problem of AB resistant bacteria, but this is actually the first I've ever heard that a significant part of the problem is NOT over-prescription, but rather livestock practices.

If that is actually the case (and intuitively it seems like it would be) then I would think if nothing else doctors groups would be saying things like "Hey, leave us the fuck alone! We are not the problem here!".

[frunk]

I am with Valmy here - I've heard a lot about the problem of AB resistant bacteria, but this is actually the first I've ever heard that a significant part of the problem is NOT over-prescription, but rather livestock practices.

If that is actually the case (and intuitively it seems like it would be) then I would think if nothing else doctors groups would be saying things like "Hey, leave us the fuck alone! We are not the problem here!".

It's both.  Antibiotics over-prescribed to humans are more likely to cause resistance in bacteria strains that are dangerous to humans (see resistant TB) but the huge amount of usage in animals means that many more bacteria are exposed and develop resistance.  Few of these strains are likely to be dangerous to humans, but the ones that are become problematic.

[crazy canuck]

And to be clear the over prescribing issue mainly relates to patients with no bacterial infection.  That is, as I described earlier a problem.

[dps]

Yeah, I don't think the concern here is that without antibiotics humanity will cease to exist.

Of course not.  But Timmay overhypes it as if that were the fear.  Granted, he takes his cue on that from the media.

This is a perfect example of why I am a "small-l" libertarian.

A classic case where you need some kind of intervention because the free market (certainly the global free market) does not suffice to protect society as a whole.

Simply make it part of the licensing process for sale of meat. It cannot be treated with these kinds of antibiotics.

Of course, the problem then becomes how do you force a country like China to play ball. Not so hard to do if they want export said meat, but the problem is that even their domestic consumption has impacts outside China.

Agree.

And to be clear the over prescribing issue mainly relates to patients with no bacterial infection.  That is, as I described earlier a problem.

Yeah, doctors will still sometimes prescribe antibiotics to patients with the flu or a bad cold, but those are viral infections, and antibiotics don't do shit against viruses.  Or, the doctor doesn't know why the patient is sick, but will give them antibiotics in the hope that that will clear up whatever it is.

[grumbler]

The USFDA has already issued guidelines to curb the use of antibiotics as routine feed additives to livestock (the law itself won't be changed so long as the Luddite Republicans are the majority).  Some drug companies have already consequently relabeled drugs to require a veterinary's approval for their use.  Violations of such labeling is a crime.  It's still not clear that voluntary efforts will be enough, however, as the farm industry has a lot of clout.

I've not seen anything that indicates that animal feed antimicrobial additives are the leading cause of drug-resistant bacteria.  I rather suspect that this is a convenient boogieman.  It seems, rather, that it's a problem, not the problem.

[jimmy olsen]

Yeah, I don't think the concern here is that without antibiotics humanity will cease to exist.

Of course not.  But Timmay overhypes it as if that were the fear.  Granted, he takes his cue on that from the media.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that.