Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Tonitrus]

The workplace death study is nice for raw numbers, but so would think the means of death is pretty important too.  Not many loggers being directly murdered by another person.

Could you lay out the reasoning for that?

I think the factor of being killed/murdered by another human is a significant differentiating factor than being squished by a falling tree?

If all one cares about is analyzing "how likely are you to die in this job?", then sure, that's fine.  But I think "how likely are you to be murdered in this job?" is a much more interesting question.

[Jacob]

I think the factor of being killed/murdered by another human is a significant differentiating factor than being squished by a falling tree?

If all one cares about is analyzing "how likely are you to die in this job?", then sure, that's fine.

I mean sure, it's a differentiating factor... but what's the significance of the difference? When you're dead you're dead, and presumably the families and friends are going to miss the departed equally?

[Zoupa]

Yeah I don't get the difference either.

[Tonitrus]

Well, if ya'll don't see it the same way...then probably nothing I can do to help that.

I don't dispute the "if you're dead you're dead...families still miss/grieve" points...but for me, it is hard to think that loved ones would not look at the grieving process differently if their loved one was killed by a psycho in a clown suit as opposed to dying in a car accident.

But...to at least tie it back to the spark of the discussion (the play on the thin blue line flag/meme and delivery drivers)...I think we all know that the emotional appeal from said memes in both cases is deaths by violence and murder...not police officers/delivery drivers dying in car accidents, alcohol abuse, or heart disease.

[crazy canuck]

Well, if ya'll don't see it the same way...then probably nothing I can do to help that.

I don't dispute the "if you're dead you're dead...families still miss/grieve" points...but for me, it is hard to think that loved ones would not look at the grieving process differently if their loved one was killed by a psycho in a clown suit as opposed to dying in a car accident.

But...to at least tie it back to the spark of the discussion (the play on the thin blue line flag/meme and delivery drivers)...I think we all know that the emotional appeal from said memes in both cases is deaths by violence and murder...not police officers/delivery drivers dying in car accidents, alcohol abuse, or heart disease.

I think they do look at it differently.  Police officers accept that their jobs include dealing with dangerous situations - that is part of what they are supposed to deal with.  Not so for industrial workers.  The death of someone who goes off to work without accepting that they would be put into a dangerous situation is very hard for a grieving family to process.

[Oexmelin]

I agree with Tonitrus. The difference is clearly political. Police officers get *a lot* more political traction from how they portray the danger of their profession, which they in turn use to justify their recourse to force (in select cases, as has been amply remarked). Bringing up the likeliness of delivery people being shot undermines that argument - unless one started to argue that delivery people should be allowed to preemptively shoot people if they felt threatened.

And, in more general terms, death from gunfire / assault are used politically to indict, or to assess "society" as a whole.

Meanwhile, accidental death tend to indict an industry, or individual behavior. Loggers can make an argument for better working conditions in their industry. Other people can point to individual failures (which I have seen many times to brush aside workplace injuries - "he wasn't wearing the appropriate gear"). It's harder to weave a political argument that involves the explosive 2nd amendment, or that would make non-loggers immediately included in their fight.

So yes, when you're dead, you're dead. But not all deaths have the same political traction.

[Jacob]

So yes, when you're dead, you're dead. But not all deaths have the same political traction.

And the salient question - which I think you're getting at - is whether we should buy into the political traction US police has established around the risks warrior cops face... or not.

[garbon]

So yes, when you're dead, you're dead. But not all deaths have the same political traction.

And the salient question - which I think you're getting at - is whether we should buy into the political traction US police has established around the risks warrior cops face... or not.

Is it buy into or just recognize how it is being used politically?

[grumbler]

Any delivery driver who doesn't understand that driving a lot increases the risk of traffic accidents, even fatal ones, probably doesn't have the mental capacity to choose between driving and policing.

It is unsurprising to me that jobs involving a lot of driving or flying have a higher death toll than policing.  Hell, firefighters are much more likely to die on the way to a fire than in a fire.

[Jacob]

Is it buy into or just recognize how it is being used politically?

Both, I think? Step one is recognizing that it's being used. Step two is deciding whether you think that framing is appropriate.

[crazy canuck]

Any delivery driver who doesn't understand that driving a lot increases the risk of traffic accidents, even fatal ones, probably doesn't have the mental capacity to choose between driving and policing.

It is unsurprising to me that jobs involving a lot of driving or flying have a higher death toll than policing.  Hell, firefighters are much more likely to die on the way to a fire than in a fire.

I am surprised that anyone with the mental capacity to choose between policing and driving would engage in such a simplistic causal analysis. 

[Zoupa]

Not sure why anyone in the US would choose to be a delivery driver over a cop. A cop's job is safer, pays more and requires what, 6 months of training?

[Jacob]

So I started checking on Twitter since Putin started his war against Ukraine.

It seems obvious to me that money and politics intersect strongly in what appears and how. The amount of shit I see about Nancy Pelosi in the last couple of days - in spite of muting every instance of it - suggests to me that someone is paying money to get the message out right now.

Other things as well at different times, but this is really standing out right at the moment.

[alfred russel]

So I started checking on Twitter since Putin started his war against Ukraine.

It seems obvious to me that money and politics intersect strongly in what appears and how. The amount of shit I see about Nancy Pelosi in the last couple of days - in spite of muting every instance of it - suggests to me that someone is paying money to get the message out right now.

Other things as well at different times, but this is really standing out right at the moment.

It may not be just money and politics though. There are many many footsoldiers that will carry a story that helps their team without funding. Syt's sisters are some of the footsoldiers, but in the case of nancy pelosi there are probably also some among the bernie sanders brigade.

[Josquius]

I see loads of stuff about Pelosi and the amount she makes on the stock market. On the surface often just saying to copy her and grow rich but there does seem to be a big undercurrent of conspiracy.

And yes. It's definitely something I've noticed that people will call out fake news and misinformation and how much of a threat to society it is... But then repeat it themselves.
I have been doing a small study into this area and a lot of people do seem to see this as a problem that others have, nobody can admit that they themselves might believe lies.

Thooouughh.... This being what it is, it does seem to be a much bigger problem on the right. What is interesting there is as well as gullible idiots who just believe whatever they're told you also get a number who know something is bollocks but prefer it to the truth anyway and see reality as something that runs on faith, believe in a truth and it is the truth.