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Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

Started by Syt, December 06, 2015, 01:55:02 PM

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Syt



For perspective: according to census.gov there were 3,204,313 slaves in the U.S. in 1850.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Valmy

#11926
What difference does it make? I mean tins of mixed race Haitians had slaves, does that change anything?

Though I somehow doubt they were in every single state.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Syt

I think the underlying point they try to make is that blacks were complicit in slavery in the United States (either as slavers selling to whites in Africa, or as owners of slaves), therefore it's wrong to blame whites for this.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Josquius

Yeah, I never got that argument. You usually see it in a "Africans had slaves too!" smug comment.
.... Yeah? And?
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Admiral Yi

Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 03:05:49 AM
.... Yeah? And?

It suggests that blame is assigned on some basis other than simple culpability.

Razgovory

Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 03:05:49 AM
Yeah, I never got that argument. You usually see it in a "Africans had slaves too!" smug comment.
.... Yeah? And?

Sort of undermines Pan-Africanism. 
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Josquius

Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 08:34:27 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 03:05:49 AM
Yeah, I never got that argument. You usually see it in a "Africans had slaves too!" smug comment.
.... Yeah? And?

Sort of undermines Pan-Africanism. 
That's not the topic in which this usually comes up.
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Berkut

I think the point is more about how the media is keeping this information from us!
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 12:55:20 AM
For perspective: according to census.gov there were 3,204,313 slaves in the U.S. in 1850.

It is both sad and revealing of the staggering ignorance that of person who generated it - and the people recirculating this - think that they have stumbled on some shocking fact or something that doesn't ever appear in "the media". Among many other things, there was a Pulitzer Prize winning novel where the protagonist was a Black slaveholder;  I think "the media" covered it.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Valmy

Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 02:53:10 AM
I think the underlying point they try to make is that blacks were complicit in slavery in the United States (either as slavers selling to whites in Africa, or as owners of slaves), therefore it's wrong to blame whites for this.

Well it is a system. The blame for it is complicated, like most evil systems. Of course people of all races took whatever benefit they could from it if they lived where it existed. American Indians had slaves, for example.

The point is that the system was evil and opposed to everything our country was supposed to be opposed to. Oh and all the slaves happened to be black skinned people of African descent. I know some times these jokers try to bring indentures into it as if that is the same as slavery and while I think indentures are really bad and shouldn't be done they were at least kind of a quid pro quo in most cases. You were working off a crime or getting some benefit from your indenture, and you did have some rights as a person while indentured. And it had an expiration date and was not inherited by your descendants forever. Being a slave and being indentured was not the same.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Syt

Bit of a tangent, but didn't a lot of slaves indenture themselves after the war because they had few economic prospects?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

grumbler

I think that it is even more important to note that the media is keeping from us the information that photography was invented in time for Anthony Johnson (died 1670) to be photographed for this poster.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Bit of a tangent, but didn't a lot of slaves indenture themselves after the war because they had few economic prospects?

After what war?  The American Civil War?  In that case, I think that you are referring to sharecropping, not indentured servitude.  There were some similarities in that the power structure was entirely in the hands of the landowners.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Valmy

Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Bit of a tangent, but didn't a lot of slaves indenture themselves after the war because they had few economic prospects?

I don't think we still did indentures by 1865. Even for things like apprenticeships. But just like things like coverture, where a man gets all of a woman's stuff once he marries her (except kind of dowries which were an incredibly Byzantine arrangement), they went away at some point but I am not sure when or how.

What you are probably referring to are the share cropping schemes which were basically the 19th and 20th century American equivalents to serfdom.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

Quote from: grumbler on July 12, 2021, 09:49:36 AM
I think that it is even more important to note that the media is keeping from us the information that photography was invented in time for Anthony Johnson (died 1670) to be photographed for this poster.

Oh did they really bring up that 17th century Angolan guy they always bring up when referring to 19th century slave ownership? Surely they can find at least one other example.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."