Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Darth Wagtaros]

What? Do you not remember the smoking gun/ mushroom cloud bullshit? It was repeated by Bush, Cheney and al. in every fucking speech.

Berkut and Grumbler never could admit they were wrong on this bullshit.  They've been trying to claim they were justified for a decade and a half.

We were absolutely justified in invading Iraq.  The problem was that we had no real plan on what to do there after winning the war.

There'd be a parade.  That was as far as the thinking went. Democracy would break out, and people friendly to the West would be elected.

[frunk]

We were absolutely justified in invading Iraq.  The problem was that we had no real plan on what to do there after winning the war.

Being justified isn't the same as it being a good idea.  We also have justifications for invading NK, Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and many other countries.

[The Brain]

Are you ancient?

[Tonitrus]

We were absolutely justified in invading Iraq.  The problem was that we had no real plan on what to do there after winning the war.

Being justified isn't the same as it being a good idea.  We also have justifications for invading NK, Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and many other countries.

And that of course, is a fair point.  Plenty of justification for invading NK, but we cannot because the potential damage to Seoul is unthinkable.  Russia, China, Pakistan?  Nukes.  SA?  Hmm...maybe should have done that already.

We may have been better off taking out Saddam after Gulf War I...but there were a few reasons not to do so then, and the after-affects/occupation at that time could have been easily just as bad.  At least, the same major negative factors would still be in place...that being surrounded by a bunch of hostile states working to undermine everything you do and willing to flood supplies/weapons to local insurgents.  An effective aftermath for Iraq probably could not really have been realized without doing the same to Iran and Syria at the same time.

Leaving Saddam in place wouldn't have been glamorous either...as the Iraqi's would have to suffer under that (if not worse than how they suffered after what we did, probably in many different ways).  If Saddam's regime were to have collapsed or weakened severely without us there...there very well could be a much wider window for Iran to meddle in there.  Probably a lot like what is going on in Yemen...a proxy war against SA, and far, far more bloody.

Would the Arab Spring have still happened?  Hard to say, but there is no reason why it could not have without GW2, and many of the Mid East's problems would still exist.  We'd have just saved a couple trillion bucks...or had to blow it helping out in the region under some other kind of scenario.

But then, that is all just mental, alt-history masturbation. 

[Zoupa]

The Arab Spring started in Tunisia and had zero to do with Saddam Hussein being out of power.

[Zanza]

[Threviel]

Seems fair, commies on the left and Somalia to the right.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Just how free is libertarian?  Unless you start out rich and powerful you'll be at the complete mercy of those who did.

[Valmy]

Just how free is libertarian?  Unless you start out rich and powerful you'll be at the complete mercy of those who did.

You will be free from all government compulsion. No guarantees about other sorts of compulsion

[Syt]

[Razgovory]

Seems fair, commies on the left and Somalia to the right.

People still pushing the "Nazis were part of the left!" Bullshit"?

[DGuller]

Seems fair, commies on the left and Somalia to the right.

People still pushing the "Nazis were part of the left!" Bullshit"?

Why wouldn't they, what would make them stop?

[Habbaku]

Does it matter whether the Nazis were left or right?

[The Minsky Moment]

Does it matter whether the Nazis were left or right?

If the goal is to understand the historical reality of the Nazi movement, yes it matters.  If you think Nazis were a far left-wing party you are going to have a very confused and wrong-headed understanding of Weimar politics.

[The Minsky Moment]

BYW that entire spectrum is nonsensical.  "Conservatives" are not more liberty-loving then liberals and anarchy and "mob rule" are not extreme manifestations of conservative politics.  The whole thing is absurd.