Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[garbon]

This way of thinking is very worrisome. I mean sure there are people on the right who it is absolutely a waste of time to talk to and do hate us, but it is not like all of them are in lockstep agreement on this. Just like they love to paint us as radical and violent extremists.

I've always thought that but then if that's true, I don't know how they are still supporting the Republicans.  The Republican script currently is about revolting behavior and fucking everyone over but the rich whenever they can.

[Admiral Yi]

Was that directed at me?

Not at all.  @DGuller and the rest of the "let's kick some ass" chorus.

[Berkut]

Oh don't worry. The political ciimate will eventually deliver a far-left troll to gather the anti-elite sentiment from the other side.

If we are lucky he'll be a smart person playing the fool to get elected. If not, he won't be playing it.

I don't think it will work as well on the left, because they haven't had the groundwork for it laid by Fox News propaganda for the last two decades.

[The Minsky Moment]

He seems to understand very well that politics are local.

I'm not so sure how true that is anymore.  Heitkamp in N Dakota is running a local focused campaign but is sagging due to national issues.  On the other hand, Hugin in NJ is running as a classic northern RINO focused on local concerns against a crooked hack (Menendez) but is struggling in the polls because of the Trump association.

Trump is such a polarizing figure and sucks up so much political oxygen that for-or-against him is crowding out all other issues. The ending of the Senate filibuster rules and the recent Supreme Court controversies have focused attention on significance of the overall balance of power in the Senate, which is driving voters in both parties to circle the partisan wagons.

I'm voting in NJ this year - I think Hugin is a decent guy and has been attacked unfairly for his pharma background.  In any other prior year I would have given a close look and probably voted for him given Menendez's ethical challenges. But after the Kavanaugh debacle I don't feel I can safely do that anymore.

[Eddie Teach]

That's even worse than Brooklyn. 

[dps]

One thing is clear to me.  The Right-wing hates us.  Many would kill us if they thought they could get away with it.  Hell, they have no problem reminding us of why they keep all those guns, to kill us when conservatives have finally had enough and decided must overthrow the terrible tyranny of gay marriage and political correctness.  Why should we be civil to these people? 

I'm on the right wing, and I don't hate you (not sure what "us" you're identifying with) and certainly don't want to kill you.  And I don't even own a gun, even though I firmly support the right to own them.

[crazy canuck]

He seems to understand very well that politics are local.

I'm not so sure how true that is anymore.  Heitkamp in N Dakota is running a local focused campaign but is sagging due to national issues.  On the other hand, Hugin in NJ is running as a classic northern RINO focused on local concerns against a crooked hack (Menendez) but is struggling in the polls because of the Trump association.

Trump is such a polarizing figure and sucks up so much political oxygen that for-or-against him is crowding out all other issues. The ending of the Senate filibuster rules and the recent Supreme Court controversies have focused attention on significance of the overall balance of power in the Senate, which is driving voters in both parties to circle the partisan wagons.

I'm voting in NJ this year - I think Hugin is a decent guy and has been attacked unfairly for his pharma background.  In any other prior year I would have given a close look and probably voted for him given Menendez's ethical challenges. But after the Kavanaugh debacle I don't feel I can safely do that anymore.

Interesting.  In the sense of the Chinese curse 

[Oexmelin]

Not at all.  @DGuller and the rest of the "let's kick some ass" chorus.

The whole "civility" thing conflates (and probably willfully) many different things.

There is the tone of political exchange as performed by elected officials or candidates.
There is the tone of media punditry
There is the issue of fascists and how to deal with them
There is the nature of the exchange coming from militants - and this varies quite a bit between exchanges online, bits that are relayed by social media, published pieces in traditional media.
There is the question of the limits between the private life, and public life.

and then, there is the issue of political ruthlessness.

Republicans have been politically ruthless. They have built on years of propaganda that have aimed to delegitimize their opponents. If your opponent are not worthy of being engaged, you can have the luxury of telling them very politely to go fuck themselves. Think Orrin Hatch smiling behind his bodyguards as he waves to the women protesting the Kavanaugh nomination. This is incredibly crude and insulting, and yet, performed with all the trappings of civility. That is part of a wider debate that civil rights activist confronted long ago: it's much easier to adhere to norms of civility when you are utterly shielded from the consequences of your political actions, whereas those who have to bear the brunt of policy must, in addition, be careful never to appear "uppity".   

Even if a polite Mike Pence was President, those circumstances would not change. Civility only works when there are expectations of reciprocity, and as of now, nothing the Republicans do indicate they have the slightest deference for a bipartisan political process, and are willing to let unsanction a President whose own rhetoric has been lacking respect for individuals, groups, and constitutional ideals. So, as far as I can tell, calls on the left are thus not for being more crass, but for ceasing to be so meek. There are ways to state your political preferences without equivocating so much. It is an appeal for more ruthlessness.

Quite frankly, the idea that Hilary using "deplorable" is somehow a terrible breach of civility that led to Donald Trump, the embodiment of restraint and civility, to be elected - tells me that, once again, the terms of the debate are dictated by Republicans capable of weaponizing every Democratic breach of political norms, while normalizing every Republican breach.

[Admiral Yi]

<snip>

I don't know what you mean by meek and ruthless.

Deligitimization is clearly not a monopoly of the right.

[DGuller]

The current occupant of the Oval Office is despised by 60% of the electorate, in part because of his swinish behavior.  Emulating that is not a recipe for success.

Approval ratings don't get to nominate Supreme Court justices.  Elected presidents do.

[Razgovory]

One thing is clear to me.  The Right-wing hates us. 

I don't hate you

Many would kill us if they thought they could get away with it.

  You've been spending too much time around your Antifa friends.

Actually reading the Federalist is what caused me to draw that conclusion.  They had a lovely article about murdering and scalping liberals.

[Razgovory]

The current occupant of the Oval Office is despised by 60% of the electorate, in part because of his swinish behavior.  Emulating that is not a recipe for success.

And yet he is president, his party controls both houses of Congress, and he has a lock on Supreme Court.  That looks like success to me.

[Admiral Yi]

Approval ratings don't get to nominate Supreme Court justices.  Elected presidents do.

So you're thinking if the next Democratic presidential candidate acts like a douchebag, he or she will get elected with a slim margin in the electoral college, 2 million fewer popular votes, and get to nominate justices?

You haven't thought this one all the way through.

[Razgovory]

Approval ratings don't get to nominate Supreme Court justices.  Elected presidents do.

So you're thinking if the next Democratic presidential candidate acts like a douchebag, he or she will get elected with a slim margin in the electoral college, 2 million fewer popular votes, and get to nominate justices?

You haven't thought this one all the way through.

If the alternative is to win the popular vote and lose the electoral college then I know where to put my money.

[Eddie Teach]

One thing is clear to me.  The Right-wing hates us. 

I don't hate you

Many would kill us if they thought they could get away with it.

  You've been spending too much time around your Antifa friends.

Actually reading the Federalist is what caused me to draw that conclusion.  They had a lovely article about murdering and scalping liberals.

So instead of concluding that the author of the article and maybe his editor hated you, you decided a third of the country hated you. That's not healthy.