Now this is some fucked up shit right here...

[Liep]

Yeah I agree with Valmy. The most likely long term outcome, to me, will be the end of any anonymity on the Internet.

When I read stories like this I wonder if that isn't the best solution. People clearly can't handle it.

[Berkut]

Yeah I agree with Valmy. The most likely long term outcome, to me, will be the end of any anonymity on the Internet.

When I read stories like this I wonder if that isn't the best solution.

Some small minority of people who can cause outsized damage

clearly can't handle it.

FYP

[The Brain]

Thanks, Ank.

[Liep]

Yeah I agree with Valmy. The most likely long term outcome, to me, will be the end of any anonymity on the Internet.

When I read stories like this I wonder if that isn't the best solution.

Some small minority of people who can cause outsized damage

clearly can't handle it.

FYP

Sure, but aren't most laws based on that? If we were all sensible beings who could see the consequences of our actions we wouldn't need so many rules.

[Berkut]

Yeah I agree with Valmy. The most likely long term outcome, to me, will be the end of any anonymity on the Internet.

When I read stories like this I wonder if that isn't the best solution.

Some small minority of people who can cause outsized damage

clearly can't handle it.

FYP

Sure, but aren't most laws based on that? If we were all sensible beings who could see the consequences of our actions we wouldn't need so many rules.

Yeah, your right about that.

I often despair about what a high percentage of human activity and productivity is dedicated to keeping other humans from fucking with, stealing, or destroying the stuff we create.

[KRonn]

Oh man, this is unreal. I've heard of this stuff before too. I would think just one case of intentionally calling in a serious fake report is enough to warrant an arrest. Like calling in a bomb threat; I'm sure that just one gets a person in serious trouble. It's amazing the hassle the cops had to go through, and even though it was in Canada I'd think police there would want to take a serious look and investigation into it with US cops.

[crazy canuck]

For the Canuck lawyers (or CC, if no lawyers care to respond):  can the US victims of this guy sue under Canadian law?  Could they sufficiently prove their case if the evidence in the story is accurate?

I would imagine they could. The Canadian courts would have jurisdiction over this guy and his harassment has a jurisdictional nexus with Canada, as well as where his victims lived. He's carried on malicious acts that deliberately caused trauma and so damages to his victims as well as costs to the first responders (assuming, as stated, the accuracy of the story), so it shouldn't be too hard to find a tort theory that would fit.

Another possibility is suing the fellow in the home state of the victims, then seeking recognition and enforcement of those judgment(s) in Canada. That has become much easier in recent years under Canadian laws. That has the benefit, as far as the victims are concerned, of putting the onus and expense on this guy to try and defend the action(s) in another country (nowadays you can't sit back and ignore a foreign proceeding against you - Canadian courts will enforce them here if you do, and you will be fucked). 

Whether this guy has assets that would make suing him anywhere worthwhile is of course another story.

Second option would be much better although, I am not sure what time period anyone could sit back and simply ignore proceedings against them in the US.  We have had a reciprocal enforcement treaty with them for quite some time.  You must be much older than you look Malthus. 

Anyway, I am off to enjoy my non lawyer lifestyle.

[mongers]

Guys aren't we missing the wood for the trees, isn't this simply Terrorism?

[Malthus]

For the Canuck lawyers (or CC, if no lawyers care to respond):  can the US victims of this guy sue under Canadian law?  Could they sufficiently prove their case if the evidence in the story is accurate?

I would imagine they could. The Canadian courts would have jurisdiction over this guy and his harassment has a jurisdictional nexus with Canada, as well as where his victims lived. He's carried on malicious acts that deliberately caused trauma and so damages to his victims as well as costs to the first responders (assuming, as stated, the accuracy of the story), so it shouldn't be too hard to find a tort theory that would fit.

Another possibility is suing the fellow in the home state of the victims, then seeking recognition and enforcement of those judgment(s) in Canada. That has become much easier in recent years under Canadian laws. That has the benefit, as far as the victims are concerned, of putting the onus and expense on this guy to try and defend the action(s) in another country (nowadays you can't sit back and ignore a foreign proceeding against you - Canadian courts will enforce them here if you do, and you will be fucked). 

Whether this guy has assets that would make suing him anywhere worthwhile is of course another story.

Second option would be much better although, I am not sure what time period anyone could sit back and simply ignore proceedings against them in the US.  We have had a reciprocal enforcement treaty with them for quite some time.  You must be much older than you look Malthus. 

The real change came with Beals v. Saldhanha, that finally established the basis for recognition and enforcement in Canada along modern lines. That was in 2003 ... which yes, was a long time ago now. 

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2003/2003scc72/2003scc72.html

In that case, the Ontario defendants specifically asked an Ontario lawyer if the judgment in Florida could be enforced against them, and were told that if they didn't attorn to the Florida jurisdiction, it could not. The SCC held that the courts in Ontario should recognize and enforce the default judgment, applying the "real and substantial connection test". So they were fucked.

Presumably, prior to 2003, it would have been a possible strategy to just ignore (and so not attorn to) a foreign proceeding; certainly, after 2003, it is not. The SCC expressly ruled that the old rules about attornment should no longer apply to international recognition and enforcement.

I don't think this has anything to do with a treaty. Certainly the Supremes don't mention any.

Anyway, I am off to enjoy my non lawyer lifestyle.

[Liep]

Guys aren't we missing the wood for the trees, isn't this simply Terrorism?

He certainly terrorised these women, but doesn't that make him a terroriser and not a terrorist?

[crazy canuck]

Naw, prior to 2003 I was enforcing judgments from American Courts in Canada with no problem at all.  In BC it was done pursuant to legislation which recognized the reciprocal enforcement treaty.  The only way to avoid the enforcement was if the judgment of the US court applied a legal principle foreign to Canadian law - the test was more nuanced but that was, and is, the gist of it.  The real and substantial connection test for registering a foreign judgment absent a treaty has always been the test iirc.  Not sure why it was an issue in that case.

[viper37]

This particular case does illustrate a serious problem though - how do you deal with this kind of international crime?

This asshole was in Canada (typical Canadian), and look how hard it was to do anything about it.

What if he was in Russia? Or China?

Oh a solution to this problem will eventually be reached. And we will not like it. This is how psychopaths ruin it for everybody else.

I don't think the base problem here is anonymity.  Once the police took the case seriously, they managed to find him pretty quickly.

The problem that arose were:
a) The cops didn't take the matter seriously
b) Once a cop started taking the matter seriously, he found the guy, but he was in another country
c) The cops from country b) did not take the matter seriously given that no offense were committed in their jurisdiction and cyber-crimes are still a huge Terra Incognita and harrassment in general is not taken seriously enough.
d) The judiciary system from country b) does not believe in punishing criminals, only rehabilitating them

See, if you had lots of cops working from a), things would have gone faster, but it was only one local officer with no technical knowledge and he had very poor support from the FBI until the number of cases rose pretty high and only after he himself methodically reported each incident to the FBI.

[mongers]

Guys aren't we missing the wood for the trees, isn't this simply Terrorism?

He certainly terrorised these women, but doesn't that make him a terroriser and not a terrorist?

I don't see that distinction, her terrorised society, however you may wish to define that, the online community they played on or the sections of society like the police officers called out to deal with these intense events. You don't think many of those cops/first responders didn't feel fear as they went into situation they believed to be very dangerous.

[Barrister]

Almost certainly judgment proof.

Really?  Just how much do the parents make, and what is the upper limit of worth that qualifies as judgement-proof in Canada/his jurisdiction?

Can't enforce a judgment against the child on the parents.  Big stores tried in shoplifting cases - was resoundingly shot down in the courts.

Given my own experience in youth court and the YCJA, I'm astounded this kid got 16 months custody.  I would have expected a non-custodial disposition.

[Liep]

Guys aren't we missing the wood for the trees, isn't this simply Terrorism?

He certainly terrorised these women, but doesn't that make him a terroriser and not a terrorist?

I don't see that distinction, her terrorised society, however you may wish to define that, the online community they played on or the sections of society like the police officers called out to deal with these intense events. You don't think many of those cops/first responders didn't feel fear as they went into situation they believed to be very dangerous.

He didn't set out to terrorise society, terrorists do. He might inadvertently have caused harm to more than these women but I'm pretty sure he didn't give a shit about that.