Don’t erase Woodrow Wilson. Expose him.

[Martim Silva]

Good. I just said the same thing few days ago when some idiot complained about The Economist quoting Voltaire, because Voltaire was "racist".

Whoever said that was not only a bigot, but an extremely ignorant person.

If you read Voltaire's works  - and I will point out lettres philosophiques (original: 'Lettres ecrites de Londres sur les Anglois et autres sujets', 1734) as an example - you will see that he often points to China as the 'most civilized nation in the world', with an exemplary culture.

He did say, in (in Essai sur les moeurs and Lettres d'Amabed), that Blacks seemed to lack the same ability of understanding than other races because they 'could not understand philosophy' and that they had 'a simian appearence', but that would be something that an XVIIIth century person would immediately notice about Black people.

Voltaire was very progressive, even for our standards. His letter defending that chamber maids should not be punished for having lesbian relations with their mistresses are an example of something that went totally against the morality of the day.

(in fact, he was progressive a lot even for today; he defended freedom of the individual so much that he said that romance between a brother and sister should not be banned, if both parties are consenting adults. Something that is often not mentioned today, because it goes even against our modern morality... for now).


That said, I am totally against judging someone with modern standards. He should be judged as people of his time saw him/her, otherwise all context is lost.

For example, I dislike religion, am a fierce anti-monarchist and hate the aristocracy. But that doesn't mean I will think that a medieval King like, for example, Edward III, should be despised and forgotten as 'classist', 'oppressive', 'obscurantist' and so on. I will judge him on his merits and based on how the world was in his days.

(this approach, btw, makes studying men like the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II quite amazing - people totally out of the patterns of his age, and with views and behaviours that were held only quite a few centuries after their deaths).

As a result, I cannot approve of this fashion of attacking ancient models. They may be dated, but should not be rejected because they do not match modern feelings.

[Razgovory]

Um okay.

[The Brain]

I can't get a date with even ancient models.

[Malthus]

I can't get a date with even ancient models.

What, you don't own a shovel?

[The Brain]

I can't get a date with even ancient models.

What, you don't own a shovel?

No I don't, Mr. Moneybags.

[garbon]

I can't get a date with even ancient models.

What, you don't own a shovel?

No I don't, Mr. Moneybags.

Yeah, but I heard you got a new car, so you can't be that poor.

[Malthus]

I can't get a date with even ancient models.

What, you don't own a shovel?

No I don't, Mr. Moneybags.

Yeah, but I heard you got a new car, so you can't be that poor.

Hell, he could probably afford a backhoe.

Which would be a suitably named item for his purpose. 

[Tonitrus]

I can't get a date with even ancient models.

What, you don't own a shovel?

No I don't, Mr. Moneybags.

Yeah, but I heard you got a new car, so you can't be that poor.

Hell, he could probably afford a backhoe.

Which would be a suitably named item for his purpose. 

The shovel wouldn't get him much anyway...better to acquire one of those sexy classical marble statues and just try to simulate it. 

[Eddie Teach]

The shovel wouldn't get him much anyway...better to acquire one of those sexy classical marble statues and just try to simulate it. 

Simulate or stimulate?

[Tonitrus]

The shovel wouldn't get him much anyway...better to acquire one of those sexy classical marble statues and just try to simulate it. 

Simulate or stimulate?

What, do you think I am Timmah? 

[Razgovory]

I am against the exposure of dead men.

[Maximus]

If we started denouncing all the great men who were scum, we'd have no more great men.

And that would be bad?

[Tonitrus]

Hmm, I guess along the same lines...if the fact that someone was a "scumbag" invalidate their historical legacy, does that go the the same for great historical artists and their works (perhaps call it the "Roman Polanski" rule)?  Should said art/masterpieces be removed from public display and/or destroyed?

[Martinus]

Hmm, I guess along the same lines...if the fact that someone was a "scumbag" invalidate their historical legacy, does that go the the same for great historical artists and their works (perhaps call it the "Roman Polanski" rule)?  Should said art/masterpieces be removed from public display and/or destroyed?

In that case we should tear down pretty much all works of great art and architecture. Michaelangelo was an abusive jerk and possibly a rapist and really most of great pre-modern monuments were built using slave labour or other forms of oppression and exploitation.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I identify the process of erasing the past with the Nazis, Stalinism, the first Qin Emperor, the papal index and the ISIS knobsters. Just on that basis I'm fairly sure it is a bad idea.