Do The Kurds Deserve Their Own Nation State?

[11B4V]

Yes

[Admiral Yi]

"deserve" has nothing to do with anything.

Deserve has quite a bit to do with it for me.  Part of the calculus is predicting how much like grown ups they will act once they have independence.

[mongers]

Before or after?.. nuking them from orbit.

You want to nuke the Kurds?


edit:

Or did you mean, the Kurds declare UDI, all the nasty forces in the region converge on them to snuff out the nascent nation state and then the US tatically nukes the descending hordes?

Not just the Kurds.

That seems a little ... indiscriminate.

My plan would see all the eschatological fundamentalists being turned into ashes, pretty close by to places that they foresee as being where Armageddon would be fought. 

[celedhring]

Every country where they are a sizable minority seems hellbent on trying to kill them off. So it seems it's even a matter of necessity.

[derspiess]

Yeah, it seems like a good idea now, but the situation is like Poland pre-WWI.  We could end up with the Kurdish lawyer posting all sorts of nonsense here. I'm not sure we want to take that chance.

Dang.  Wish I had read this before I voted Yes.

[Monoriu]

Only if they win a war of independence against every one of their overlords first.  Otherwise, they don't deserve their own state.

[DGuller]

Too bad for Kurds that these poll results are not binding. 

[OttoVonBismarck]

I struggle with this. I don't necessarily believe in the right of self-determination--if that were the case we have to argue the Confederate States should've been allowed to break away from the union. Ethnic nationalism has lead to much of the worst troubles of the late 19th and first half of the 20th century. I think the model where multiple ethnic groups can exist in the same country without exploding is a superior one to one in which it's expected any self-identified ethnic group deserves its own state.

For the Kurds in particular, Iran will never give up their land for a Kurdish State, and Turkey won't either. To be honest, Turkey is a NATO ally and when push comes to shove I can't get behind pressuring them to give up their land. Namely because you could make the same argument about several NATO allies and land they hold (e.g. Spain, United Kingdom etc.) We should pressure Turkey to end discrimination and hostility against peaceful Kurds (but continue to condemn the Kurds who engage in terrorism.)

I'd be okay with the United States trying to work to link up the Kurdish regions of Syria and Iraq and move it towards full statehood, though.

[MadImmortalMan]

I don't like the use of the word deserve in this context. So I voted no. But I do think a state for the Kurds might be a good idea.

[Razgovory]

I struggle with this. I don't necessarily believe in the right of self-determination--if that were the case we have to argue the Confederate States should've been allowed to break away from the union.

Since southerners weren't distinct group separate from northerners, we don't have this problem.

[Barrister]

I struggle with this. I don't necessarily believe in the right of self-determination--if that were the case we have to argue the Confederate States should've been allowed to break away from the union.

They probably should have been allowed to break away.

[Malthus]

Yes

No whey.

[Grinning_Colossus]

Yes. Though the ones I have in mind will insist that it's not a nation-state. Or a state. 

[viper37]

Do the Kurds deserve their own nation state?

You can take or define deserve however you wish, but the scenario I'm outlining is the Kurdish areas of Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran declaring national independence, which could obvioulsy prove rather messy.

Yes they do deserve a State of their own. Carve it out of Syrian and Iraq, eventually the Kurds from Iran and Turkey will move there, so the question of oppressed ethnic minorities would settle itself in these countries.

I could see that happening, but there's 7-8 million Kurds in Turkey, there isn't the land, certainly agricultural land to accommodate many of them, so a future Kurdish state eventually has to take a chunk out of Turkey, like how Attaturk did with French Syria in the 20s40s?

IIRC the Kurds in Iran are concentrated in just a few towns and small areas along the mountainous border, it would be relatively easy for a nation state to agree to minor border revisions or more likely allow those Iranian Kurds who wished to, to emigrate to the new entity. 

Carving a Kurdish state out of Iran and Turkey is not gonna happen.  Iran is not going to let any border, even small one, being redrawn.  Iraq and Syrie will protest, but they will be in no shape to do anything about it.  Turkey would never agree to a viable Kurdish state on its border and it will do its best to make life a living hell for any Kurdish state and for Kurds in their territory, sorta like how muslim countries treated Jews after Israel was created.  So, Turkey would never agree to a partition of its territory, and they certainly are in a position to create problems.

[viper37]

Ethnic nationalism has lead to much of the worst troubles of the late 19th and first half of the 20th century.

Imperialism caused the wars.  For WW1, the desire for Empires to maintain their territorial integrity above all else.  For WWII, the desire of former empires to regain their past "glory" of oppressing minorities.