Climate Change/Mass Extinction Megathread

[Valmy]

We have to make it cheaper and better and then India will adopt it. I think we are on our way, it isn't like India isn't adopting wind and solar. They are just behind the curve.

[Josquius]

We have to make it cheaper and better and then India will adopt it. I think we are on our way, it isn't like India isn't adopting wind and solar. They are just behind the curve.

They are. But they're also deepening their level of stupid-evil.
I worry they could go the way of the religious right in the US and not just be uncaring about climate change but actively in favour of it.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah it is amazing. Things have gone so much better than anybody ten years ago could have predicted for wind and solar. That is why I have a hard time not being optimistic. My expectations for how much progress we made has been blown away. Can that keep happening?

But it still isn't anywhere near enough.

Yeah.

The climate is deteriorating, we are seeing the impact more often and more severely - and it is accelerating. At the same time progress on what we need to do is now happening faster than expected and accelerating - again renewables are being installed at vast pace in China but also elsewhere like South Africa (and globally at a pace that is growing fast enough to hit our targets). Both are true at once and are accelerating. I think we're in the tension between those two realities.

I'd slightly quibble on anywhere near enough - it depends what we're trying to achieve and how we assess. I think 1.5 degrees is impossible until we're able to remove carbon. But, from my understanding based on current policies and programs, we've still got a relatively good chance of 2 degrees as stable (again until we're abe to remove carbon - and acknowledging that if that's the new stable temperature then the extremes will be higher) - which is not the position we were in a few years ago and as we do more our chances improve.

But I think it's one of the reasons India is key because the one thing that would blow all that out the water is if India grows in the way China did. It's similar with Africa - the population projections won't happen because fertility rates are declining quite fast. But regardless if we cant work out a way for India and Africa to urbanise and generate power in a low carbon way then we're looking at significantly above 2 degrees.

[Valmy]

Eventually pulling carbon out of the atmosphere will be a central pillar in our climate maintenance efforts.

It is kind of dystopian but controlling the climate will soon be a major issue of international policy. The Anthropocene is indeed here.

[Barrister]

My wife makes fun of me for listening to door-to-door salesmen and the like.  I always invariably tell them to (politely) go away after they make their pitch.

But there was a guy last week that had me intrigued.

Apparently this company will install solar panels on your roof at their expense.  You then sign a contract to buy power from them at a rate modestly less than you're paying now for 10 years.  After 10 years the contract is concluded and you own the solar panels.

Anyone ever heard of such a scheme?  Any thoughts?

COmpany is called Fluent Solar.  Googling does confirm it's a legit company, serves 13 states plus Alberta.

[crazy canuck]

My wife makes fun of me for listening to door-to-door salesmen and the like.  I always invariably tell them to (politely) go away after they make their pitch.

But there was a guy last week that had me intrigued.

Apparently this company will install solar panels on your roof at their expense.  You then sign a contract to buy power from them at a rate modestly less than you're paying now for 10 years.  After 10 years the contract is concluded and you own the solar panels.

Anyone ever heard of such a scheme?  Any thoughts?

COmpany is called Fluent Solar.  Googling does confirm it's a legit company, serves 13 states plus Alberta.

This seems to be a work around for the high initial cost of installation.  But look carefully at the math.  You might be better off incurring the initial cost of installation yourself rather than paying their rates over time.  They might be comparable to what you are paying now but the benefit of solar panels is after installation you get free energy. 

Also, think about it like a car lease.  In the bad old days, before those agreements became more heavily regulated, there were all kinds of hidden costs hidden in the small print that you would incur both during at the end of the contract. 

For example, look carefully at what you must do to maintain the panels during those 10 years.  The contract likely specifies that they do the maintenance work.  And that is where there is a lot of opportunity for abuse (and them growing their profit margin).

[Valmy]

My wife makes fun of me for listening to door-to-door salesmen and the like.  I always invariably tell them to (politely) go away after they make their pitch.

But there was a guy last week that had me intrigued.

Apparently this company will install solar panels on your roof at their expense.  You then sign a contract to buy power from them at a rate modestly less than you're paying now for 10 years.  After 10 years the contract is concluded and you own the solar panels.

Anyone ever heard of such a scheme?  Any thoughts?

COmpany is called Fluent Solar.  Googling does confirm it's a legit company, serves 13 states plus Alberta.

Interesting. Only 10 years? Nice.

I mean they are going to be getting a better deal than you would if you just bought the solar panels and had them installed BUT you will be paying less than if you didn't get them at all. So that's kind of an interesting proposition if you don't have the cash to just have panels installed.

[Jacob]

I have no idea to be honest, but if they're in a position where their main obstacle to company growth is growing their install base then it's possible that it's actually a legit proposal.

[Barrister]

Yeah I mean obviously the company is doing this to make a profit.  But also yes - if the contract price is indeed less than what we are already paying then it's kind of free money to us too.

I've wanted to go solar for a long time, but the return on investment always seemed fairly far out in the future.  I see 9-12 years quoted for panels to pay for themselves.

BUt yes - it's important to check the fine print for sure, and to confirm what the electricity price really would be.

[Josquius]

Rather than carbon removal which I can't see going anywhere at scale for a while i would see limited solar shields having a role in future climate management.

The co2 of course has negative effects beyond merely the warming so this is no substitute for just not pumping the shit out. But satellites that block some sunlight are perfectly within modern capabilities unlike large-scale carbon capture.

I could see potentially interesting times with this if Russia manages to maintain itself beyond it's current suicide attempt and their profiting from higher temperatures vs those who want us brought back to 20th century norms.

[Maladict]

This is somewhat encouraging news.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/14/us/montana-kids-win-climate-trial/index.html

[mongers]

This is somewhat encouraging news.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/14/us/montana-kids-win-climate-trial/index.html

Can lawsuits really save the world/Us ?

Maybe we should ask some of Languish's esteemed contributors?

[Maladict]

This is somewhat encouraging news.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/14/us/montana-kids-win-climate-trial/index.html

Can lawsuits really save the world/Us ?

Maybe we should ask some of Languish's esteemed contributors?

That's how things finally started to get moving here. The court ordered the government to do more against climate change for the sake of future generations.

[Barrister]

My wife makes fun of me for listening to door-to-door salesmen and the like.  I always invariably tell them to (politely) go away after they make their pitch.

But there was a guy last week that had me intrigued.

Apparently this company will install solar panels on your roof at their expense.  You then sign a contract to buy power from them at a rate modestly less than you're paying now for 10 years.  After 10 years the contract is concluded and you own the solar panels.

Anyone ever heard of such a scheme?  Any thoughts?

COmpany is called Fluent Solar.  Googling does confirm it's a legit company, serves 13 states plus Alberta.

Interesting. Only 10 years? Nice.

I mean they are going to be getting a better deal than you would if you just bought the solar panels and had them installed BUT you will be paying less than if you didn't get them at all. So that's kind of an interesting proposition if you don't have the cash to just have panels installed.

So sat down with a sales guy.  It's not 100% what the door-to-door guy described, but close.

You do in fact own the panels.  You take out a loan.  You then make payments to the company.  Those payments are balanced out over the year, since it's expected that in the summer you'll be making net contributions to the energy grid, but in the winter making net withdrawals.  The payments do figure out to be 10-20% less than what we pay on average for power.  Loan can be paid out at any time without penalty.

I dunno - sounds like a decent deal.

[Josquius]

I'd be suspicious of why they're reliant on door to door salesmen. That always puts me instantly on the defence.
But worth checking out and seeing their competitors too. If at least for the fun of them trying to con you with illegal small print.