Catalan 'independence declaration' to trigger showdown with Madrid

[celedhring]

The independence resolution will be voted on November 9th, exactly 1 year after the ersatz referendum the separatists organized one year ago (they have a truly odd fixation with anniversaries).

[Valmy]

Not 100%, but at least 50%+1

Well I disagree. I think creating independent nations deserves a larger standard than electing city dog catcher. So our discussion has been pretty pointless.

There was a clear abuse for the South has you threatened their way of life and their financial security.  That it was justified to be threatened because slavery was (and is) immoral is another debate, entirely.

Why is it another debate entirely? This is a pretty central point. How can it be another debate entirely when it is central to the entire discussion?

It is either a clear abuse or it is not. Since a clear abuse generally needs to be a human rights violation it is pretty clear it is not.

[Valmy]

Because you were victorious.

Nope.

The same sort of abuse, even worst, happenned in England, Ireland, Scotland, Quebec, India, all over British territories.

I think I am pretty consistent claiming that most of the independence declarations from the British Empire were legitimate for reasons I do not need to go into. The British could not really give them equal rights without making it no longer a British Empire. But if they had well that would have made the situation different...and weird...but also different.

Only the 13 colonies rebelled.

Well that is obviously untrue.

But, as I said, independence is ultimately a revolutionary act. Just because there are reasons to have a revolution does not mean one will always take place.

[Razgovory]

I will note that the collapse of the Soviet Union followed roughly Valmy idea of a democratic separation.  There were very legitimate reverences and a free vote.  It was a bit of a rarity, but it happened.  Valmy's general requirement of needing more then just a 51% majority before separation is not only reasonable, but typical of separating powers.  The Confederate Constitution expressing forbid secession form the CSA.  An independent Quebec would likely be the same.  A state that splits over every issue simply isn't viable.  I have to say, that viper's constant talk of "culture" is a bit off putting.  I really get the feeling that he doesn't give a shit about what's just or legal so long as Francophone culture holds special status over other cultures in Quebec.