Why I've started to believe that religion is actively dangerous

[Berkut]

I don't see conspiracy theorists or New Age people running the US Congress, so no, I don't consider them "just as dangerous".

There's no anti-vacciners in Congress? 

Not that I am aware of, and they don't seem to be having much success formulating any policy that matters.

How about truthers of various flavors?

Same. If they are there, they don't seem to really matter in any practical sense.

  Religious nuts might predominate, but I think it's the wrong problem to target.

There are certainly a lot of problems that need targeting, and of course not all of them are driven by religion. That doesn't speak to my point though - what DOES speak to my point is the basic religious idea that there is a final authority out there who takes an active role in human affairs. That means that no matter what, things can't get TOO bad, because God can always fix it.

Are the super rich getting more and more super rich? Sure. Probably because god wants it that way.

[The Brain]

God wants it that way. Tell me why.

[DGuller]

God wants it that way. Tell me why.

God works in mysterious ways.

[dps]

I don't see conspiracy theorists or New Age people running the US Congress, so no, I don't consider them "just as dangerous".

There's no anti-vacciners in Congress? 

Not that I am aware of, and they don't seem to be having much success formulating any policy that matters.

How about truthers of various flavors?

Same. If they are there, they don't seem to really matter in any practical sense.

  Religious nuts might predominate, but I think it's the wrong problem to target.

There are certainly a lot of problems that need targeting, and of course not all of them are driven by religion. That doesn't speak to my point though - what DOES speak to my point is the basic religious idea that there is a final authority out there who takes an active role in human affairs. That means that no matter what, things can't get TOO bad, because God can always fix it.

Are the super rich getting more and more super rich? Sure. Probably because god wants it that way.

Speaking as a Christian, I don't understand the attitude at all.  I mean, if I felt that way, I'd be a stupid Calvinist.

[crazy canuck]

This is my point - that belief in a deity like this necessitates a certain abjection of responsibility. THere is a god out there who is, at the end of the day, the final authority on what is going to happen at a global scale, and concerning oneself about the idea that humans could actually, on their own accord, destroy Gods creation is in fact the height of hubris, and a rejection of the humility that faith in an omniscient god demands.

I think that is more reflective of the kind of Christianity which has come to dominate North America.  And I agree with you that version of Christianity is a problem.  However, there are other forms of Christianity which encourage believers to act in this world.  BB has used some examples of religious people who act in this world to create positive changes.  I will give a more personal anecdote.  My aunt is a very religious person.  She was a school teacher and is now a widow.  She had the benefit of marrying a fairly wealthy man and unfortunately they had no children.  She now uses her resources and skills to personally fund and oversee the construction of schools in Kenya for the education of girls.  She also assists in the training of the teachers for the schools and funds the supplies and equipment needed in the schools.  She also often visits to see how things are going and to provide any other assistance that might be required.

For a time she did the same thing in Afghanistan but it has become too dangerous for her there.

She certainly isn't doing this because she believes that God will look after it if she doesn't.  She does it because she believes that is the purpose God chose for her.  I tell her that she does it because she is a kind caring person.  But I am not sure she accepts my explanation as valid.

[Martinus]

God wants it that way. Tell me why.

You and me together
Fighting for our love

[Eddie Teach]

I enjoy Disney World, but I can deal with Florida sinking into the ocean.

Much of Puerto Rico will sink with it.

[Berkut]

This is my point - that belief in a deity like this necessitates a certain abjection of responsibility. THere is a god out there who is, at the end of the day, the final authority on what is going to happen at a global scale, and concerning oneself about the idea that humans could actually, on their own accord, destroy Gods creation is in fact the height of hubris, and a rejection of the humility that faith in an omniscient god demands.

I think that is more reflective of the kind of Christianity which has come to dominate North America.  And I agree with you that version of Christianity is a problem.  However, there are other forms of Christianity which encourage believers to act in this world.  BB has used some examples of religious people who act in this world to create positive changes.  I will give a more personal anecdote.  My aunt is a very religious person.  She was a school teacher and is now a widow.  She had the benefit of marrying a fairly wealthy man and unfortunately they had no children.  She now uses her resources and skills to personally fund and oversee the construction of schools in Kenya for the education of girls.  She also assists in the training of the teachers for the schools and funds the supplies and equipment needed in the schools.  She also often visits to see how things are going and to provide any other assistance that might be required.

For a time she did the same thing in Afghanistan but it has become too dangerous for her there.

She certainly isn't doing this because she believes that God will look after it if she doesn't.  She does it because she believes that is the purpose God chose for her.  I tell her that she does it because she is a kind caring person.  But I am not sure she accepts my explanation as valid.

No argument from me - I am certainly NOT trying to make the claim that all people are like Inhofe or radical Islamic terrorists. Of course there are good people who are also motivated to do good by their faith.

[Malthus]

I think the discussion has strayed from where my original point was, which is fine of course, but I want to get back to it myself.

The issue is not about whether Inhofe is really a Christian or not - it is about the particular concept of responsibility and religion, and how the common view of a deity as a patriarchical figure with infinte power and a plan influences how humans think.

If I believed, as many Christians do, that God exists, is infinitely (or effectively infinitely) powerful, and he has a plan for the world, then it certainly follows that we can be somewhat assured that our own actions are not going to ruin that plan in the whole. Sure, we can argue biblical interpretation of Inhofe's quote versus the quotes that call on humans to be stewards, but I don't think Inhofe, for example, would argue that he is NOT being a steward - of course he would argue that the stewardship demand is made in the context of this overall plan.

And if that plan does not include human activity warming up the planet until it becomes inhabitable, then he is right to dismiss concerns about human global warming. It either cannot happen, because as he says god would not allow it, or even if it does happen, it can't be so bad since it would still be part of God's plan anyway.

This is my point - that belief in a deity like this necessitates a certain abjection of responsibility. THere is a god out there who is, at the end of the day, the final authority on what is going to happen at a global scale, and concerning oneself about the idea that humans could actually, on their own accord, destroy Gods creation is in fact the height of hubris, and a rejection of the humility that faith in an omniscient god demands.

On the contrary, this particular religion contains myths in which human actions directly lead to widespread destruction at the hands of a vengeful God - Noah's Flood, for example.    Or Sodom and Gehmorrah.

But peopple like Inhofe would simply point out that those were in response to people defying God - and he is doing exactly the opposite of defying God, hence the comparison simply does not apply.

To the extent that they feel a possible disaster based on Gods wrath, they are supporting Kentucky clerks in their efforts to avoid it - not demanding that we burn less fossil fuels.

Debatable which myth would apply to Florida's impending immersion in the sea ... 

Of course - that is the point - it is debatable. And if Florida DOES end up under 6 feet of water, Inhofe will simply point out that it is punishment for letting gay people get married, not a result of human activity.

In the flood and S&H, those were terrible things that happened not because humans made them happen, but because GOD made them happen to punish humans.

That is not even remotely similar to the idea that human activity can result in a flood even if God doesn't want said flood to happen.

Letting gays get married is a human activity ...   

It just happens that, in modern times, God's wrath is activated by the sin of pollution, not failure to recognize guest-rights like in ancient Sodom. Evidently, God wants humans not to pollute.   

Of course guys like this won't buy that, but his position isn't hardwired into the religion.

[Malthus]

This is my point - that belief in a deity like this necessitates a certain abjection of responsibility. THere is a god out there who is, at the end of the day, the final authority on what is going to happen at a global scale, and concerning oneself about the idea that humans could actually, on their own accord, destroy Gods creation is in fact the height of hubris, and a rejection of the humility that faith in an omniscient god demands.

I think that is more reflective of the kind of Christianity which has come to dominate North America.  And I agree with you that version of Christianity is a problem.  However, there are other forms of Christianity which encourage believers to act in this world.  BB has used some examples of religious people who act in this world to create positive changes.  I will give a more personal anecdote.  My aunt is a very religious person.  She was a school teacher and is now a widow.  She had the benefit of marrying a fairly wealthy man and unfortunately they had no children.  She now uses her resources and skills to personally fund and oversee the construction of schools in Kenya for the education of girls.  She also assists in the training of the teachers for the schools and funds the supplies and equipment needed in the schools.  She also often visits to see how things are going and to provide any other assistance that might be required.

For a time she did the same thing in Afghanistan but it has become too dangerous for her there.

She certainly isn't doing this because she believes that God will look after it if she doesn't.  She does it because she believes that is the purpose God chose for her.  I tell her that she does it because she is a kind caring person.  But I am not sure she accepts my explanation as valid.

So you *do* have wealthy relations. 

[lustindarkness]

I enjoy Disney World, but I can deal with Florida sinking into the ocean.

Much of Puerto Rico will sink with it.

It will sink, but not with it, it is at a different spot. Not that I expect some gringo to know where some little insignificant island is.
BTW, when half of Puerto Rico sinks, most of the rum distilleries are on the coast, they better move up the mountains and compete with the coffee plantations.

Hey, maybe I'll finally convince Mom to move out of there.

[crazy canuck]

This is my point - that belief in a deity like this necessitates a certain abjection of responsibility. THere is a god out there who is, at the end of the day, the final authority on what is going to happen at a global scale, and concerning oneself about the idea that humans could actually, on their own accord, destroy Gods creation is in fact the height of hubris, and a rejection of the humility that faith in an omniscient god demands.

I think that is more reflective of the kind of Christianity which has come to dominate North America.  And I agree with you that version of Christianity is a problem.  However, there are other forms of Christianity which encourage believers to act in this world.  BB has used some examples of religious people who act in this world to create positive changes.  I will give a more personal anecdote.  My aunt is a very religious person.  She was a school teacher and is now a widow.  She had the benefit of marrying a fairly wealthy man and unfortunately they had no children.  She now uses her resources and skills to personally fund and oversee the construction of schools in Kenya for the education of girls.  She also assists in the training of the teachers for the schools and funds the supplies and equipment needed in the schools.  She also often visits to see how things are going and to provide any other assistance that might be required.

For a time she did the same thing in Afghanistan but it has become too dangerous for her there.

She certainly isn't doing this because she believes that God will look after it if she doesn't.  She does it because she believes that is the purpose God chose for her.  I tell her that she does it because she is a kind caring person.  But I am not sure she accepts my explanation as valid.

So you *do* have wealthy relations. 

Yeah, but she married him well after Mrs. CC and I were married.  So I still grew up poor.

[Capetan Mihali]

Think I should join the Episcopal Church?  The denomination that's "Protestant, yet Catholic" (as they self-describe)?  Incense, confession, WASPs, and gay-married priests?

I just got back in touch after a couple of years with an old Craigslist roommate who I became good friends with, and I guess he's going in for a full-immersion baptism sometime soon.  Not that it's Episcopalian, of course.

[Barrister]

Think I should join the Episcopal Church?  The denomination that's "Protestant, yet Catholic" (as they self-describe)?  Incense, confession, WASPs, and gay-married priests?

Go to a service and check it out.  If it speaks to you, go to some more.

[Eddie Teach]

some gringo

Ouch.