Puerto Rico’s Governor Says Island’s Debts Are ‘Not Payable’

[Admiral Yi]

The results of the 2012 PR referendum:

46% status quo
33% statehood
18% "free association"
2.9% independence

[garbon]

The results of the 2012 PR referendum:

46% status quo
33% statehood
18% "free association"
2.9% independence

They could chose to look at the 54% who said, no we don't want to keep our current status. There might not be alignment on what it should be changed to, but a majority didn't like what they currently had.

[Admiral Yi]

They could chose to look at the 54% who said, no we don't want to keep our current status. There might not be alignment on what it should be changed to, but a majority didn't like what they currently had.

They could also choose to look at the 67% who didn't want statehood, etc, etc.

[LaCroix]

yeah, the referendum failed to gain majority in favor of statehood. I don't see a problem with the oversight board.

[garbon]

They could chose to look at the 54% who said, no we don't want to keep our current status. There might not be alignment on what it should be changed to, but a majority didn't like what they currently had.

They could also choose to look at the 67% who didn't want statehood, etc, etc.

That's why I said Congress could choose to do something about it.

Anyway, I don't really see how doing nothing about the situation is better as the majority clearly voted that they wanted something done. Not sure why then following the 46% is the best option.

[OttoVonBismarck]

The PR referendum was poorly structured and discredited by the huge number of people who voted "No" to keeping the current status, but who refused to vote on the options listed for the potential new status.

If PR wants Congress to take statehood seriously they need a simple referendum yes/no on statehood that makes the will of the people known unequivocally. I'd say there is democratic legitimacy to pursuing a new status, but no clear mandate on what that would be (interestingly--similar to the EU situation.)

[CountDeMoney]

So "give us free money with no strings attached" is the demand I guess?

You didn't have a problem when the banks did it.

That money wasn't free.  It was pretty pricey.

That breaks my heart.  I'm sure it was a real bitch making it up those difficult weeks, especially after all the record bonuses were paid out.

[garbon]

The results of the 2012 PR referendum:

46% status quo
33% statehood
18% "free association"
2.9% independence

By the by, I think this math is incorrect. Wiki notes that while in the first question 828,077 voted status quo, there were 834,191 votes for statehood in 2nd question.

All silly likely, people could answer both questions regardless of answer to Q1, so base of those answering 2nd question was larger than those who voted no to status quo.

Fair math would put votes for statehood slightly larger than votes for status quo - both less than a majority.

[Admiral Yi]

By the by, I think this math is incorrect. Wiki notes that while in the first question 828,077 voted status quo, there were 834,191 votes for statehood in 2nd question.

All silly likely, people could answer both questions regardless of answer to Q1, so base of those answering 2nd question was larger than those who voted no to status quo.

Fair math would put votes for statehood slightly larger than votes for status quo - both less than a majority.

You using this link? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum,_2012

The table at the bottom looks like it was made using Puerto Rican math.  The total number of votes on the second part is equal to the total number of votes on the first part.  The total on 2 should only be 54% of total 1.

I got my percentages from the table at the top of the link.

[garbon]

By the by, I think this math is incorrect. Wiki notes that while in the first question 828,077 voted status quo, there were 834,191 votes for statehood in 2nd question.

All silly likely, people could answer both questions regardless of answer to Q1, so base of those answering 2nd question was larger than those who voted no to status quo.

Fair math would put votes for statehood slightly larger than votes for status quo - both less than a majority.

You using this link? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum,_2012

The table at the bottom looks like it was made using Puerto Rican math.  The total number of votes on the second part is equal to the total number of votes on the first part.  The total on 2 should only be 54% of total 1.

I got my percentages from the table at the top of the link.

Yes that's the thing. And like I said, people could answer both. So even if you said you wanted status quo, you could also fill in what you'd choose as a non-territorial option.  So ended up more votes for statehood than picked status quo.

Here's the ballot:

[Admiral Yi]

Are you basing that solely on that obviously incorrect table at the bottom?

[garbon]

Well for one, I'm basing it on the fact that the ballot text of question two specifically tells voters to answer regardless of how they answered option 1.  I'm then also reading the cited text at the top of the page, though I'll admit I didn't check the citations:

970,910 (54.00%) voted "No" on the first question, expressing themselves against maintaining the current political status, and 828,077 (46.00%) voted "Yes", to maintain the current political status. Of those who answered on the second question 834,191 (61.11%) chose statehood, 454,768 (33.34%) chose free association, and 74,895 (5.55%) chose independence.

[Admiral Yi]

OK, that's as bizarre as fuck.

[Valmy]

The results of the 2012 PR referendum:

46% status quo
33% statehood
18% "free association"
2.9% independence

Oh if only it was that simple

The difference is the US government didn't swear they were going to have this referendum and didn't make a pledge to honor it. But even so I still think they should have been admitted if, indeed, a majority had voted for statehood. I have looked over this vote several times now and I am still not sure.

If it were up to me every single inhabited territory would get a 'Statehood or Independence' vote. Territory status was never intended to be a permanent deal.

[Habbaku]

Yeah I think Spicey was one of those 'let them all the weak banks fall apart and the strong shall RISE!' types during that crisis.

Ah, yes.  The "Too Big to Fail" approach.  Wonder how that turned out.

  That's the exact opposite of the Too Big to Fail approach.