EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Valmy]

What's with the reverse Ns on the flag?

I am far more baffled why they got the first n correct. Maybe it was some kind of weird 19th century thing to reverse the N if it was not the first letter of a word.

[Martinus]

Tamas, your basic argument seems to be not that immigrants are a problem, but that assholes will say immigrants are a problem because they hate them, so we should do what the assholes want so that they can't say they are unhappy.

As I said, it works pretty similar to your gun problem. The simplest solution would be to ban or severely restrict access to guns - like it is done in the rest of the civilized world. But you don't do it, because it is not politically feasible. Same with attitudes about immigration in Europe. You have to work with what you have - you can't expect people to wisen up suddenly over night.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

What's with the reverse Ns on the flag?

it's paradox testing their Soviet font.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The US wasn't either in the 1800s.

Yeah and you didn't see us form any far right anti-immigrant parties...



A fine sentiment but it was too late for the Native Americans by that point

That is the flag of the 'American Party' aka 'The Know-Nothings'

You are missing the point.

We are not saying that American is super awesome and we don't have dumbasses.

We are saying that despite the dumbasses saying the exact same things people are saying now, THEN, it all turned out not just ok, but more than ok.

Hence, please Euroes (and current dumbass know nothing Americans, for that matter),

a) Don't be a dumbass, and
b) Don't listen to the dumbasses, and
c) Don't be anti-immigration on the basis of fears that they are going to destroy your culture in place of their own.

c is a tad ironic given what mass-migration of europeans did to the local cultures...

[garbon]

[Valmy]

incidentally: north america is a nice example of mass-migration not going well for the native population.

Particularly when the migrants bring over infectious diseases that kill off 90% of you.

[Iormlund]

I think about the hundreds of thousands of Chinese that immigrated to the US in the 1800s. A totally alien culture, as alien as probably existed at that time.

What happened in the long run?

100% assimilation. Complete and total, and their descendants today are as American as American can be - and American culture to the extent it changed at all changed in a completely positive way. Now we have hot Chinese-American women and fucked up American-Chinese food.

The process might be messy, but the outcome is clear and a win for "our" side.

The problem is that in most European states the concept of national identity is based on ethnicity.

In my experience identity is mostly based on language, dialect, accent.

[Razgovory]

What's with the reverse Ns on the flag?

I am far more baffled why they got the first n correct. Maybe it was some kind of weird 19th century thing to reverse the N if it was not the first letter of a word.

There was a slang fad in New York in the 1840's were they would spell things wrong.  They really prided themselves on "knowing nothing".  We get the word "OK" from that, it stood for "Oll korrekt"  "KY" for "Knose Youse" did not survive sadly.

The thing about anti-migrant elements in the US is that they were often quite weak.  They were loud, obnoxious and often violent, but they rarely got what they wanted.  Their only real success was stemming the tide of East Asians coming into this country, a very unfortunate victory.

[Berkut]

The US wasn't either in the 1800s.

Yeah and you didn't see us form any far right anti-immigrant parties...



A fine sentiment but it was too late for the Native Americans by that point

That is the flag of the 'American Party' aka 'The Know-Nothings'

You are missing the point.

We are not saying that American is super awesome and we don't have dumbasses.

We are saying that despite the dumbasses saying the exact same things people are saying now, THEN, it all turned out not just ok, but more than ok.

Hence, please Euroes (and current dumbass know nothing Americans, for that matter),

a) Don't be a dumbass, and
b) Don't listen to the dumbasses, and
c) Don't be anti-immigration on the basis of fears that they are going to destroy your culture in place of their own.

c is a tad ironic given what mass-migration of europeans did to the local cultures...

Not really, since my entire point is that Western Culture has nothing to fear from Islamic/middle eastern/African culture, not that no culture ever has anything to fear under any circumstances no matter what.

[The Brain]

In Sweden in the 20th century people could make fun of religion without other people trying to murder them. Now people have to tip-toe around (some major examples of) religion. That's just one example of how Swedish culture has changed, and it's a pretty negative change in my book.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

c is a tad ironic given what mass-migration of europeans did to the local cultures...

Not really, since my entire point is that Western Culture has nothing to fear from Islamic/middle eastern/African culture, not that no culture ever has anything to fear under any circumstances no matter what.

depends very much on wether or not politicians, press and culturos start to show some backbone in the face of continued demands from muslims to accommodate their retrograde culturo-religious nonsens. Currently not much backbone is being seen.
So what Zanza says about defending the liberal order is correct, but it's still far too soft. The newcomers will not just accept our liberal order because it's superior (hell, 60 years of migration from Maghreb and other islamic countries has shown that there's a significant part -some cases a majority even- of the muslims here that do not accept our liberal values, and that's after 3 generations) or because they got some courses on how to behave. It'll have to be -proverbially, but given the amount that's projected over the next few decades, literally- beaten into them. So whereas - I assume- Zanza expects a relatively bloodless affair I expect something rather worse. Of which Cologne was only the beginning. And the fact that governments and media (like in Sweden, but also here) are doing their best to cover up those things that don't fit into their happy-happy-multiculti worldview reinforces that expectation. People are seeing through the lies, and are growing increasingly angry.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

incidentally: north america is a nice example of mass-migration not going well for the native population.

Particularly when the migrants bring over infectious diseases that kill off 90% of you.

doesn't really change the fact that mass-migration didn't go well for those that remained.

[Malthus]

c is a tad ironic given what mass-migration of europeans did to the local cultures...

Not really, since my entire point is that Western Culture has nothing to fear from Islamic/middle eastern/African culture, not that no culture ever has anything to fear under any circumstances no matter what.

depends very much on wether or not politicians, press and culturos start to show some backbone in the face of continued demands from muslims to accommodate their retrograde culturo-religious nonsens. Currently not much backbone is being seen.
So what Zanza says about defending the liberal order is correct, but it's still far too soft. The newcomers will not just accept our liberal order because it's superior (hell, 60 years of migration from Maghreb and other islamic countries has shown that there's a significant part -some cases a majority even- of the muslims here that do not accept our liberal values, and that's after 3 generations) or because they got some courses on how to behave. It'll have to be -proverbially, but given the amount that's projected over the next few decades, literally- beaten into them. So whereas - I assume- Zanza expects a relatively bloodless affair I expect something rather worse. Of which Cologne was only the beginning. And the fact that governments and media (like in Sweden, but also here) are doing their best to cover up those things that don't fit into their happy-happy-multiculti worldview reinforces that expectation. People are seeing through the lies, and are growing increasingly angry.

What demands are Muslims making that liberal politicians are too spineless to resist?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

In Sweden in the 20th century people could make fun of religion without other people trying to murder them. Now people have to tip-toe around (some major examples of) religion. That's just one example of how Swedish culture has changed, and it's a pretty negative change in my book.

or the Sharia courts in Britain. Not a positive evolution either. Especially not for women. Machteld Zee has done a nice study on it.

[Valmy]

incidentally: north america is a nice example of mass-migration not going well for the native population.

Particularly when the migrants bring over infectious diseases that kill off 90% of you.

doesn't really change the fact that mass-migration didn't go well for those that remained.

Probably because it wasn't? The Europeans were migrating to the Spanish Empire or whatever not to the Mayan nation.