EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Legbiter]

Good for Hungary.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Orban has just announced there shall be a fence along the Croatian border as well   

I mean, it only takes around 300 riot police, a water cannon, a couple of armored vehicles, and two helicopters to hold one gate on the fence, why wouldn't hundreds upon hundreds of kilometers of more fence solve the issue?!

complete employment will be in reach soon.

[Martinus]

I guess at this point my question would be what is the competent non-racist way of handling this situation.

We could start by kicking Hungary and Portugal out of the EU.

lol

The muslims on the Hungarian front would abhor you if they knew of your homofag existence and would sooner toss you off of a tall building than reciprocate your misplaced kindness.

As I said, all the racists come from the shitty pseudo-countries. Latest addition: Iceland.

[Martinus]

I guess at this point my question would be what is the competent non-racist way of handling this situation.

1. Take people coming now. Turning them away is inhumane.
2. Make clear to them that if they want to stay they have to obey the rules of an open pluralistic society (this should not just be implied - put them through education and exams - they can leave the refugee camp and live within the society when they pass the exam and swear allegiance to secular constitution). Enforce the rules ruthlessly (yes, it will cost money) both against fundamentalists and local racists/fascists. No tolerance for intolerance.
3. Put diplomatic and commercial pressure on Arabic countries to accept their share of refugees.
4. Rethink our policy of toppling secular (or somewhat secular) dictators in Middle East.
5. Put diplomatic and commercial pressure on Arabic countries (in particular, the Saudis) to stop funding fundamentalist clerics in the West. If they refuse, make them our enemy (yeah, costly).

I am not saying anything of this is easy, but you wanted a solution - and it will cost us. But then we tolerated "friends" like Saudis for way too long.

[Martinus]

For the record, I really hate it when people use my homosexuality as a way to somehow discredit my willingness to help the refugees. It's either the type of racism-cum-homophobia that Legbiter just exhibited, or "Oh you are gay, so you want to be tolerant" (the latter coming from some supposedly sympathetic people).

No, I just think you are ignorant. Being gay has nothing to do with it.

[Legbiter]

As I said, all the racists come from the shitty pseudo-countries. Latest addition: Iceland.

Clutch your pearls ever more tightly, darling.

[Razgovory]

Serbia intervenes?

What the hell was that suppose to be?

[Duque de Bragança]

I guess at this point my question would be what is the competent non-racist way of handling this situation.

We could start by kicking Hungary and Portugal out of the EU.

lol

The muslims on the Hungarian front would abhor you if they knew of your homofag existence and would sooner toss you off of a tall building than reciprocate your misplaced kindness.

As I said, all the racists come from the shitty pseudo-countries. Latest addition: Iceland.

Unfortunately, this last one cannot be even theoretically expelled/deported from the EU (like an illegal migrant?), even by Martinus. 

[Syt]

Serbia have protested the use of tear gas and water cannon on their territory. They will send more police to keep the groups apart. A Serbian news crew say they've been attacked by Hungarian police even though they repeatedly identified themselves as press. When the refugees threatened to break through the border, the police retreated, and three Hungarian jeeps with machine guns took positions about 100 meters away.

Romania criticized Hungary's building a fence on their border, saying that there was no migrant pressure, contrary to what Hungary claims, and that it's massively counter to the European spirit. Their prime minister Ponta said that this harks back to the countries' relations in the 1930s, and that Romania, unlike Hungary, does not welcome refugees with wooden clubs and serial numbers.

Hungarian foreign minister Szijjarto replied that Ponta was caught in a circle of lies and that he obviously had lost not only his political position but also his self control. His Romanian counterpart replied that Hungary's tone was unacceptable and that it was an attempt to artificially create conflict.

Ban Ki-Moon says he was shocked by the images from the Hungarian border and that it was unacceptable to treat refugees this way. Szijjarto rejected the criticism as bizarre and outrageous, as it was made based on incomplete information. For example, 14 Hungarian police men had been injured by the attackers.

In an interview with Austrian daily Die Presse, Orban said that if any states say they didn't weren't informed about the refugees coming from Hungary, then they're lying.

He says he doesn't take the public criticism from Austrian chancellor Faymann seriously. In their regular phone calls the tone is more amicable. Orban says he understands that Faymann plays a role in the tactics of the European Left - one day the Austrian complains, then the Swede, then the Romanian. He added that at least the French are subtle in their insults. Romanians and Austrians are more blunt which is why he doesn't expect an apology from Austria, because that's not their way.

In the same interview he declared multiculturalism dead. He says he's studied the Western European societies in the last years and come to no other conclusion that weren't integrated into society, despite the countries' best efforts, creating parallel societies. He says it was a matter of demographics and mathematics. It's not about religion, but about culture, lifestyle, gender equality and freedom of speech, and a question of the unlimited supply of Muslims in the Middle East.

[Tamas]

Szijjarto being the Foreign Minister, or to be more precise, Szijjarto being anything more than a janitor in this country is probably the lowest the country has ever sunk since 1945.

But he proved himself over the years as an uncompromising lapdog of Orban, having spent many a press conferences as his press secretary making an utter fool out of himself with a straight face.

[Duque de Bragança]

Meanwhile in France, Meanwhile, in France, the media barrage produces a great pointless, symbolic feel good gesture, based on Hungarian bashing:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2015/09/16/97001-20150916FILWWW00225-la-seyne-le-drapeau-hongrois-mis-en-berne.php

Executive summary:

Hungarian flag half-masted as a protest to the Hungarian policy against migrants

Marc Vuillemot PS mayor of la Seyne sur Mer, near Toulon in southern France, has decided to lower to half-mast the Hungarian flag to protest against the so-called harsh Hungarian policy in dealing with refugees. The flag will be replaced at a later date by the UN flag. The hungarian flag was among the 27 flags of EU countries standing over a pier near the city hall. His coalition goes from PS to the trotskyite NPA (New Anticapitalist Party).
Yet The mayor has no plan to receive refugees since it's up to the state to indicate to the lower echelons of administrations how to help in the process.
No reaction from the conservative and extreme right wing opposition groups yet (LR and FN).
The local FN secretary asked on whose authority the mayor had turned into a lesson giver, and stated that his duty was to care about la Seyne sur Mer (implying he made a poor job) and that Hungary was right in not receiving all refugees.

Marc Vuillemot, maire (PS) de La Seyne-sur-Mer (Var), une commune proche de Toulon, a décidé de mettre en berne, dans sa ville, le drapeau hongrois, en protestation contre la politique de ce pays à l'égard des migrants, a indiqué aujourd'hui son entourage. «La décision a été prise lundi soir lors d'une réunion de la majorité municipale, qui va du PS au NPA», indique-t-on dans l'entourage du maire. Ce dernier, en déplacement, était injoignable ce mercredi. «Le maire a décidé également de retirer à terme le drapeau hongrois pour le remplacer par celui de l'ONU», précise-t-on de même source.

L'élu marque ainsi son désaccord avec la politique de la Hongrie à l'égard des réfugiés et, notamment, la fermeture de la frontière magyare avec la Serbie. Ce drapeau flotte, au milieu des 27 autres drapeaux des pays de l'Union européenne, sur un quai situé en face de l'Hôtel de Ville de cette commune de plus de 60.000 habitants. Le 8 septembre, sur son blog, Marc Vuillemot avait indiqué que sa ville était prête à «assumer ses devoirs» en matière de solidarité avec les réfugiés. «La Seyne qui, des réfugiés italiens du XIXe siècle aux fugitifs des dictatures et aux enfants de Sabra et Chatila du XXe, a toujours été terre d'accueil, fera évidemment son devoir», écrit-il.

Marc Vuillemot n'a cependant pris aucune décision concrète d'accueil des réfugiés, expliquant que c'est à l'Etat «d'indiquer qui doit faire quoi, en intégrant les possibilités propres à chacun des maillons de l'organisation territoriale de la République». Samedi 12 septembre, un représentant de la majorité municipale de La Seyne-sur-Mer s'est rendu à la réunion organisée par le ministre de l'Intérieur Bernard Cazeneuve pour évoquer cette question. L'opposition municipale de La Seyne-sur-Mer (LR et FN) n'a pas réagi à la mise en berne du drapeau hongrois mais Frédéric Boccaletti, secrétaire départemental FN du Var se demande «de quel droit ce maire donne des leçons à un autre pays ?». «Qu'il s'occupe d'abord de gérer sa ville», indique-t-il. Selon lui, «les Hongrois ont raison de ne pas accepter tous ces migrants».

I bet the Hungarian embassy in France could have a field day in France with this. Don't know how aligned to Orban are the diplomats though.

PS: as a bonus, Orban gave an interview to Le Figaro, leading centre-right newspaper and declared that while respecting the Pope's position that each parish should receive a refugee family, as a protestant, he did not him as infallible.
Languish style, ignoring infallibility only applies to theological matters, in a council, as a last resort, to make a decision.

[Syt]

In Dortmund, the city council decided to build an additional facility for refugees. SPD, CDU, Greens, Pirates, Linke and FDP mostly voted for it. The AfD, NPD and Die Rechte voted against it as expected. One council member from Die Rechte held a three minute speech against migration which he concluded with "Deutschland den Deutschen - Ausländer Raus!" (Germany for Germans - Foreigners Out), a popular slogan of the neo nazis since the 80s at least. Many citizens in attendance applauded him for it which is not permitted according to the council's rules, so the council chair ordered the audience out of the council. The Rechte speaker then used a megaphone to protest this which led to him being kicked out as well.

[Tamas]

The Hungarian police spokesman claims the trigger to yesterday hostilites were not a misunderstanding (rumor was that the police let a couple of families through which made the migrants to believe the border was open again), but rather, they have evidence that the police at the site received an ultimatum from (I am pretty sure) parts of the migrants that if the gate was still closed at 1PM they would attack.

Couple of telling pictures of both sides I guess:

[Crazy_Ivan80]

http://www.tijd.be/politiek_economie/internationaal_midden_oosten/Twee_dagen_en_750_euro_voor_vals_Syrisch_paspoort.9676690-3143.art?ckc=1&ts=1442488144

exec summary: Two days and 750 euro's for a fake Syrian passport. On official paper and printed with the official printers.

[Martinus]

In Dortmund, the city council decided to build an additional facility for refugees. SPD, CDU, Greens, Pirates, Linke and FDP mostly voted for it. The AfD, NPD and Die Rechte voted against it as expected. One council member from Die Rechte held a three minute speech against migration which he concluded with "Deutschland den Deutschen - Ausländer Raus!" (Germany for Germans - Foreigners Out), a popular slogan of the neo nazis since the 80s at least. Many citizens in attendance applauded him for it which is not permitted according to the council's rules, so the council chair ordered the audience out of the council. The Rechte speaker then used a megaphone to protest this which led to him being kicked out as well.

Wow, lovely. Good thing Germany banned the use of swastika - this has surely eliminated nazism from public life.