EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Valmy]

Ok...does anybody outside of these poor bastards in Eastern Europe and the Balkans have a plan on how to handle this? Are we just going to sit around and watch this disaster unfold?

[Valmy]

1. Take people coming now. Turning them away is inhumane.

Yes...but who is in charge of that? Hungary cannot do that. Serbia cannot do that. Well I guess they could...but I don't think that is what you mean.

2. Make clear to them that if they want to stay they have to obey the rules of an open pluralistic society (this should not just be implied - put them through education and exams - they can leave the refugee camp and live within the society when they pass the exam and swear allegiance to secular constitution). Enforce the rules ruthlessly (yes, it will cost money) both against fundamentalists and local racists/fascists. No tolerance for intolerance.

Thought control is a non-starter. They are going to bring whatever they bring.

3. Put diplomatic and commercial pressure on Arabic countries to accept their share of refugees.

Pretty sure those countries have been under tremendous pressure for a long while now.

4. Rethink our policy of toppling secular (or somewhat secular) dictators in Middle East.

Toppling regimes has never been a policy. It is a case-by-case basis But yes we should not do this. I don't even want us to topple the North Korean regime.

5. Put diplomatic and commercial pressure on Arabic countries (in particular, the Saudis) to stop funding fundamentalist clerics in the West. If they refuse, make them our enemy (yeah, costly).

We are already putting devastating pressure on them. It is called 'fracking'.

I am not saying anything of this is easy, but you wanted a solution - and it will cost us. But then we tolerated "friends" like Saudis for way too long.

Nations do not have friends, they have interests.

The only thing that makes sense is #1 and I think everybody has called for that theoretically, but the EU is too weak to do it. Confederations never work. This is the Hanseatic League all over again.

[Martinus]

Sorry I am not going to parse that shit.

On 1, yes there has to be a pan-European response. I like Zizek's idea of allocating refugees to countries and telling them, sorry, you cannot move with the EU for the time being. This will probably require some sort of ID cards for refugees, but unlike the US, people in Europe generally are required to have/carry IDs on them, so it is not a cultural shock the way it would be in the US.

On 2, I am not advocating thought control - I am advocating verbal commitment (which, surprisingly, is a problem to many fanatics) coupled with ruthless enforcement of the rules on those who violate them. But this must be matched with a ruthless enforcement against our fanatics and haters.

On 3, the pressure should be greater. Simple as that.

On 4, we seem to agree.

On 5, that is not enough. Unlike no. 3, the pressure here should not be just commercial and diplomatic - if the Saudis continue to sponsor fanatical clerics on our soil, they should be held responsible through sanctions and the like. We should also, generally, cool it off with the Saudis and stop sucking their cocks all the time.

[Valmy]

Ok fine I was just wanting to fit in with Berkut and company.

Oh I agree. I have no idea what the deal is with the Saudis and why we always have to be their best buds, especially since the US does not even need them anymore. Though it probably has something to do with oil being fungible. The fungibility factor always gets them off the hook.

[Martinus]

Ok fine I was just wanting to fit in with Berkut and company.

Oh I agree. I have no idea what the deal is with the Saudis and why we always have to be their best buds, especially since the US does not even need them anymore. Though it probably has something to do with oil being fungible. The fungibility factor always gets them off the hook.

It may be fungible but is it fungible from Yuggoth?

[Syt]

Leave the Saudis alone, they're busy bombing Yemen back into the 1200s.

[mongers]

Leave the Saudis alone, they're busy bombing Yemen back into the 1200s.

Only the Saudis could make bombing with smart bombs, look so dumb.


It's almost like they don't care about civilians?

[Syt]

I'm guessing their pilots are picked like the regimental commanders of most 18th century European armies.

[Valmy]

I'm guessing their pilots are picked like the regimental commanders of most 18th century European armies.

By how fabulous their wigs are?

[Syt]

I'm guessing their pilots are picked like the regimental commanders of most 18th century European armies.

By how fabulous their wigs are?

And whether their families can buy them a commission.

[Valmy]

And whether their families can buy them a commission.

Oh ok that seems more likely.

[Admiral Yi]

I believe Saudi pilots get their training in the US, so my suspicion is the civilian casualties are not a function of pilot ineptitude.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Leave the Saudis alone, they're busy bombing Yemen back into the 1200s.

Only the Saudis could make bombing with smart bombs, look so dumb.


It's almost like they don't care about civilians?

that's because they don't. different cultures and all that

[Zanza]

Merkel should never have raised their expectations with her "we welcome you all" bs. The whole business needs proper regulation and adherence to the rule of law, otherwise a tragedy will be inevitable.

Wasn't her "we welcome you" in reaction to an ongoing tragedy in Hungary and along the way from the Middle East?

Would we have any less refugees arriving right now if she hadn't said that? I suspect all of them were already on the way. The stories you hear make it sound like the trip usually takes several weeks.

[Tamas]

Merkel should never have raised their expectations with her "we welcome you all" bs. The whole business needs proper regulation and adherence to the rule of law, otherwise a tragedy will be inevitable.

Wasn't her "we welcome you" in reaction to an ongoing tragedy in Hungary and along the way from the Middle East?

No. It was what triggered the impatience of the migrants. They were quite content to suffer through Hungarian ineptitude until that.