EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Syt]

Serbia has announced that it will not accept any refugees deported back from Hungary and that it will protect its border with troops if necessary.

[citizen k]

Serbia has announced that it will not accept any refugees deported back from Hungary and that it will protect its border with troops if necessary.

Is this how tragedies unfold? One misstep at a time.

[Syt]

Well, Hungary has closed its border with Serbia for any refugees, and reportedly it's quiet there, so this may not be relevant, anyways.

While I think an honest discussion can be had about whether Hungary did the right thing in closing its borders and kicking out all refugees, Orban's rhetoric remains ... well, he told the border police that with guarding the border they were protecting the Western Values of Europe and the Cultural Integrity of Hungary.

[11B4V]

It will in the end fall on the US.

[Eddie Teach]

It will in the end fall on the US.

To destroy ISIS.

[Syt]

Hungary reports that it's arrested 16 people last night who crossed the border illegally.

[Jaron]

Oh no...

This is the beginning of the end...

of this post.

[Liep]

Well, Hungary has closed its border with Serbia for any refugees, and reportedly it's quiet there, so this may not be relevant, anyways.

Many of the refugees have smartphones and will have known this. There are also trains to Vienna from Zagreb iirc.

[Tamas]

Well, Hungary has closed its border with Serbia for any refugees, and reportedly it's quiet there, so this may not be relevant, anyways.

Many of the refugees have smartphones and will have known this. There are also trains to Vienna from Zagreb iirc.

Yeah I think if this border closing at Serbia will be effective (and the alternative is a series of tragedies as whole families will be arrested and there would be masses of people trying to break through soldiers armed with AKs), it will be effective in channeling the migrant wave toward Croatia. Then they just might turn to the completely unguarded Croatian-Hungarian border and Hungary will be back to square one except having to control a larger border.

In some ways I would not mind Orban's hardline solution working, but as Syt said, it would be horrible to have him succeed while doing this absolutely toxic and hateful rhetoric

[Tamas]

Well the relative quiet at the main border crossing with Serbia is quickly ending.

First this morning there has been 200-300 people starting a hunger strike demanding to be let in, but in a matter of hours there is now a crowd of app. 1500, reporters saying the police did not expect that much and now hurriedly trying to reinforce the barbed wire fence.

[Martinus]

No

No what? Do you disagree with what I said? The somewhat succesful faux "self-made-men" (who fail to recognise how the fact that they live outside of a conflict zone in a stable society has contributed immensely to them having a relatively good job and middle class life success) are usually the worst when it comes to helping others - because they see any attempt to get taxed as the government "stealing their money". It's the most morally degenerate group.

[Tamas]

No

No what? Do you disagree with what I said? The somewhat succesful faux "self-made-men" (who fail to recognise how the fact that they live outside of a conflict zone in a stable society has contributed immensely to them having a relatively good job and middle class life success) are usually the worst when it comes to helping others - because they see any attempt to get taxed as the government "stealing their money". It's the most morally degenerate group.

I think this experience comes directly from the people you associate with. Feeling "self-made" is pretty far off from average East European sentiment.

[Tamas]

I could be wrong but IIRC Serbia is not letting people back from the Hungarian border crossing. Already there are thousands stuck in no man's land, going restless.

Meanwhile, on the other end of the spectrum, migrants apparently emergency-stopped a train to Berlin several times, because they felt like leaving at different spots than the capital itself.

[Duque de Bragança]

Well, Hungary has closed its border with Serbia for any refugees, and reportedly it's quiet there, so this may not be relevant, anyways.

While I think an honest discussion can be had about whether Hungary did the right thing in closing its borders and kicking out all refugees, Orban's rhetoric remains ... well, he told the border police that with guarding the border they were protecting the Western Values of Europe and the Cultural Integrity of Hungary.

Well that should be taken with a grain of salt, not so long ago Orban said [some very un-christian countries such as] China and Turkey were role models for his régime. 

Orban's self-contradicting rhetoric is but a local nuisance whereas Merkel's irresponsible and self-contradicting too rhetoric has exacerbated a major crisis, flip-flopping not withstanding. Most of the time, she waits outs doing nothing or very little, very late such as in the Euro crisis, but when she acts all of a sudden it's completely irrational cf. the German exit of nuclear energy.
Now, the countries against illegal migrants quotas are even threatened of withdrawal of EU funds.

Germany said Tuesday it approves of using EU aid funds to pressure member states into accepting binding quotas to relocate 120,000 refugees, after several eastern countries refused the migrant distribution proposal.

"The negotiations situation is such that nothing happens to countries which refuse. We need to talk about ways of exerting pressure. These are often countries that receive a lot of structural funds from the European Union," German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere told television network ZDF.

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker "has suggested that we should look at whether these countries should get less structural funds, which I agree with," he added.

Hopes of a unanimous deal on distributing refugees across the bloc collapsed in the face of opposition from Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Romania at the crisis meeting of interior ministers in Brussels on Monday.

Germany, which is expecting to receive a million asylum-seekers this year, has been pushing for other European countries to take their fair share of refugees.

In the face of the surge in migrant numbers, Berlin took the drastic measure of reinstating border controls on Sunday to slow the influx.

http://www.expatica.com/de/news/country-news/Berlin-backs-cutting-EU-funds-to-states-that-refuse-refugee-quotas_507398.html

Five years ago, Merkel said the multicultural approach had failed. Did she inspire Orban then?

Attempts to build a multicultural society in Germany have "utterly failed", Chancellor Angela Merkel says.
She said the so-called "multikulti" concept - where people would "live side-by-side" happily - did not work, and immigrants needed to do more to integrate - including learning German.
The comments come amid rising anti-immigration feeling in Germany.
A recent survey suggested more than 30% of people believed the country was "overrun by foreigners".
The study - by the Friedrich Ebert Foundation think-tank - also showed that roughly the same number thought that some 16 million of Germany's immigrants or people with foreign origins had come to the country for its social benefits.
Foreign workers
Mrs Merkel told a gathering of younger members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party on Saturday that at "the beginning of the 60s our country called the foreign workers to come to Germany and now they live in our country."
She added: "We kidded ourselves a while, we said: 'They won't stay, sometime they will be gone', but this isn't reality."
Analysis

By Stephen EvansBBC News, Berlin
Angela Merkel took pains to say immigrants are welcome.
The words "utterly failed" are very strong, but there are also nuanced messages about the usefulness of immigrants in a country that needs skilled labour.
She is pitching it very carefully, with important elections coming up in the spring.
The tone is very important.
The chancellor is basically saying that Germany needs immigrants but immigrants need to do something to get into the society.
Germany's charged immigration debate
"And of course, the approach [to build] a multicultural [society] and to live side-by-side and to enjoy each other... has failed, utterly failed."
In her speech in Potsdam, however, the chancellor made clear that immigrants were welcome in Germany.
She specifically referred to recent comments by German President Christian Wulff who said that Islam was "part of Germany", like Christianity and Judaism.
Mrs Merkel said: "We should not be a country either which gives the impression to the outside world that those who don't speak German immediately or who were not raised speaking German are not welcome here."
Mounting debate
There has been intense debate about multiculturalism in Germany in recent months.
Correspondents say Mrs Merkel faces pressure from within her CDU and its allies to take a tougher stance and require immigrants to do more to adapt to German society.
Earlier this week, Horst Seehofer, the leader of the CDU's Bavarian sister party, the CSU, said it was "obvious that immigrants from different cultures like Turkey and Arab countries, all in all, find it harder" to integrate.

Germany's president says Muslims belong in Germany
Your Say: Does multiculturalism work?
"'Multikulti' is dead," Mr Seehofer said.
Earlier this month the chancellor held talks with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in which the two leaders pledged to do more to improve the often poor integration record of Germany's estimated 2.5 million-strong Turkish community.
The debate first heated up in August when Thilo Sarrazin, a senior official at Germany's central bank, said that "no immigrant group other than Muslims is so strongly connected with claims on the welfare state and crime". Mr Sarrazin has since resigned.
Such recent strong anti-immigration feelings from mainstream politicians come amid an anger in Germany about high unemployment, even if the economy is growing faster than those of its rivals, our correspondent says.
He adds that there also seems to be a new strident tone in the country, perhaps leading to less reticence about no-go-areas of the past.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-11559451

Back then the Guardian said

The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, has courted growing anti-immigrant opinion in Germany by claiming the country's attempts to create a multicultural society have "utterly failed".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed

[Syt]

The hashtag #Oktoberfestung (October Fortress) keeps popping up - cynics say that the Bavarian state has pressured the federal government to close the borders so that the October Fest can happen undisturbed.