EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Tamas]

What is starting to piss me off is the regularity of hundreds of migrants blocking motorways (in Hungary at least).

I get it: its the shortest route. But marching your family on motorways which are in use? Really?

I sympathise with them not wanting to get stuck in Hungary, but they request the EU to accept them in, and in exchange all they are showing is blatant disregard of EU and local laws, plus lack of concern for what distruption they are causing to the locals.

Then again, the latter is a recent phenomenom. In previous months, all reports by farmers and such living in the southern areas were that the small groups of refugees were very polite and apart from asking for water they made sure to avoid bothering the locals.

I guess any human group big enough for a mob actually becomes one.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I don't see how this proposed quota for refugees is compatible with Schengen :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34193568

Say a refugee is assigned to Poland but wants to move to Germany, what will stop him? Or will the refugees be held in camps encircled by barbed wire and watchtowers?

Nothing will stop him, but he wouldn't be able to work, buy/rent housing or receive welfare benefits in Germany if he's not a national citizen of EU, which he presumably won't be for a while. Makes being in Germany not so fun.

Unless of course he travels to Germany, tears up his papers and claims he just arrived from his country of origin as an asylum seeker.
Maybe we could get an EU-wide fingerprint database of asylum seekers but logistics aside they already do not want to give their fingerprints until they arrive to Germany, so will we force them to give them? What if refuses? Send them back on that account?

There will be many tearings up of papers till they get what they want.

[Malicious Intent]

I guess any human group big enough for a mob actually becomes one.

This. It doesn't help either, that a large part of said mob consist of very angry young men who in the last few years were shaped by an atmosphere of violence in their home country.
If the police is ever forced to truly stand up to them in force, things could get ugly very quickly.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I guess any human group big enough for a mob actually becomes one.

This. It doesn't help either, that a large part of said mob consist of very angry young men who in the last few years were shaped by an atmosphere of violence in their home country.
If the police is ever forced to truly stand up to them in force, things could get ugly very quickly.

which is why these young men should be liberating Syria instead

[Tamas]

Well, we can try and see the next couple of weeks.

The special border zone on the Serbian border in Hungary will be set up.

There are various legal trickery but the short (and not really denied) point of it is this:

-in legal terms that zone will be like an airport: not part of the country, so migrants there will not be on EU soil, legally speaking.
-their registration and asylum request evaluation will be done in these zones in 2-3 days per case tops
-refusal of a request is pretty much guaranteed as I am reading it
-if they enter "Hungary proper" from these zones, its automatic deportation
-the government acknowledges that this will almost certainly trigger attemps by masses of migrants to break out and make a run for it toward Austria.
Thats why the army will be sent there. They will accompany police officers. Firearms will be equipped but not used. But the government does expect a number of viloent incidents to subdue breakout attempts.

The zones will be established on the 15th. The Parliament will vote on the constitution/law change letting the soldiers work there on the 21st. After that, all bets are off.

[lustindarkness]

All this just tells me Europe is not ready for the coming zombie apocalypse.

[Syt]

[viper37]

I guess any human group big enough for a mob actually becomes one.

This. It doesn't help either, that a large part of said mob consist of very angry young men who in the last few years were shaped by an atmosphere of violence in their home country.
If the police is ever forced to truly stand up to them in force, things could get ugly very quickly.

which is why these young men should be liberating Syria instead

I'm all for that, but with whom and with what?
And also, what about their families?  Would you go to war knowing your family, wife, children, parents, brothers, sisters, nephews, nieces would be tortured, executed, sold into slavery, bombed because there's no one to protect them?  You would probably first make sure they are safe, then maybe try to join another army, if you have the capacity to fight (right age, right shape, physical fitness, etc, etc).

While I recognize the short term challenges posed by massive immigration, it is unfair to say they should just stay fight in their country.  Would you fight with Al-Nusra against Bashar Al Assad?  Or would you fight with Assad against ISIS while committing atrocities against civilians?  It's not like there's a coherent, organized force of pro-democracy rebels just waiting for you.  Even if you could join with the Kurds (do they even accept non Kurds in their fighting force?), you'd have to cross ennemy lines.  With no training and no weapon, how would that go?   I don't think I'm a coward, but in the position of most of these people, I would react just as they do: seek refuge elsewhere.

[Tamas]

very true 

[Admiral Yi]

The immigrants are certainly winning the battle on the cute kids front.

[Martinus]

I guess any human group big enough for a mob actually becomes one.

This. It doesn't help either, that a large part of said mob consist of very angry young men who in the last few years were shaped by an atmosphere of violence in their home country.
If the police is ever forced to truly stand up to them in force, things could get ugly very quickly.

which is why these young men should be liberating Syria instead

Expecting heroic behaviour as a standard from ordinary people is never a good premise for a strategy that is either efficient or ethical. Usually it just masks prejudice against the given group.

[Martinus]

The immigrants are certainly winning the battle on the cute kids front.

I agree. Some of the guys in their early 20s were dreamy. 

[Liep]

Police has shut down all train and ferry traffic coming from Germany. Maybe the refugees will finally realise there's a ferry going directly to Sweden from Rostock.

[Josquius]

Why are they going to Sweden anyway?
Surely Germany is a better option these days?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I guess any human group big enough for a mob actually becomes one.

This. It doesn't help either, that a large part of said mob consist of very angry young men who in the last few years were shaped by an atmosphere of violence in their home country.
If the police is ever forced to truly stand up to them in force, things could get ugly very quickly.

which is why these young men should be liberating Syria instead

I'm all for that, but with whom and with what?
And also, what about their families?  Would you go to war knowing your family, wife, children, parents, brothers, sisters, nephews, nieces would be tortured, executed, sold into slavery, bombed because there's no one to protect them?  You would probably first make sure they are safe, then maybe try to join another army, if you have the capacity to fight (right age, right shape, physical fitness, etc, etc).

While I recognize the short term challenges posed by massive immigration, it is unfair to say they should just stay fight in their country.  Would you fight with Al-Nusra against Bashar Al Assad?  Or would you fight with Assad against ISIS while committing atrocities against civilians?  It's not like there's a coherent, organized force of pro-democracy rebels just waiting for you.  Even if you could join with the Kurds (do they even accept non Kurds in their fighting force?), you'd have to cross ennemy lines.  With no training and no weapon, how would that go?   I don't think I'm a coward, but in the position of most of these people, I would react just as they do: seek refuge elsewhere.

you're assuming that the family isn't already in Turkey or Lebanon.
And you're also assuming we'd send them back untrained. Might as well shoot them ourselves (though if migrants keep coming and coming and coming it might very well devolve into that). No, we collect them and train them, then send them back. With sufficient air and sea-cover (and whatever else needed) to end this farce so they can go home. But the situation as is going on now is going to lead to tears. And while they're at it they can clean out the Eurocracy too.