EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Eddie Teach]

I think you are missing the whole Gulf War 2 thing when one thinks about the region being destabilized.

I think you are missing the whole history of the region since the fall of the Ottoman Empire thing when one thinks about the region being destabilized.

[crazy canuck]

I think you are missing the whole Gulf War 2 thing when one thinks about the region being destabilized.

I think you are missing the whole history of the region since the fall of the Ottoman Empire thing when one thinks about the region being destabilized.

If you want to go that far back then you are forgetting how badly Wilson screwed up the Paris peace talks.

[Tonitrus]

I think you are missing the whole Gulf War 2 thing when one thinks about the region being destabilized.

I think you are missing the whole history of the region since the fall of the Ottoman Empire thing when one thinks about the region being destabilized.

If you want to go that far back then you are forgetting how badly Wilson screwed up the Paris peace talks.

Richard the Lionheart and his EU intervention would have solved everything, but for Saladin. 

[crazy canuck]

I think you are missing the whole Gulf War 2 thing when one thinks about the region being destabilized.

I think you are missing the whole history of the region since the fall of the Ottoman Empire thing when one thinks about the region being destabilized.

If you want to go that far back then you are forgetting how badly Wilson screwed up the Paris peace talks.

Richard the Lionheart and his EU intervention would have solved everything, but for Saladin. 

Why oh why couldn't the Byzantines just hold things together? Grexit indeed 

[Norgy]

But in any case Americans there trying to stabilize the region is what destabilized it in the first place, well to the extent it was previously not destabilized.

Wow.  Amnesia about just how bad the US messed things up in the region is strong with this board.

The Iraq war was what brought the majority of us here, what 12 years ago, 13 years ago.
It's also, incidentally, what created this mess.

[crazy canuck]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to blame Languish.

[Razgovory]

I have a difficult time seeing how a war that strengthened Iran's power over Iraq resulted in weakening Iran's power over Iraq.

[Martinus]

Yeah, I don't think this is about moving to a richer country so much as moving to a country that isn't in a civil war.

So what was the deal with the refugees in Turkey? Did they just keep them locked up in camps or something?

I heard some Egyptian expert saying Turkey was driving all the refugees into Greece and the EU with the intention of trying to destabilize them but that seemed a bit too mustache twirlingly evil.

There is also the point of Turkey not being the safest place for Kurdish refugees. And we know that Middle East does not exactly have a stellar record when it comes to maintaining the safety of refugees in camps, even those managed by supposed democracies.

[Valmy]

But in any case Americans there trying to stabilize the region is what destabilized it in the first place, well to the extent it was previously not destabilized.

Wow.  Amnesia about just how bad the US messed things up in the region is strong with this board.

Well color me confused. I thought I was just saying we messed things up in the region. Want to parse this for me?

[Valmy]

If you want to go that far back then you are forgetting how badly Wilson screwed up the Paris peace talks.

Well I think I could discuss the sectarian baiting of the decades long tyrannical rule of Abdul-Hamid that resulted in violence between religious groups that had lived side by side for centuries. I could mention the corrupt nationalism of the Young Turks that exasperated nationalist feelings. I could mention the obvious destabilizing impacts of WWI, WWII, European Colonialism, and the creation of Israel (though that process already started under Abdul-Hamid as well).

I am not sure the Middle East would be this great bastion of stability if the US had never gotten involved, it was already pretty fucked. I mean the Soviets were going to go in regardless.

As for Wilson I mean sure he waived the red flag of 'national self-determination' justifying violence by every nationalist douche out there instead of focusing on individual rights, but the US had no power in the Middle East at the time. We had no troops or soft power of any sort, nor the will to deploy them.

But in any case our influence has mostly been disastrous.

[Valmy]

The Iraq war was what brought the majority of us here, what 12 years ago, 13 years ago.
It's also, incidentally, what created this mess.

I think it created ISIL but the powers propping up the Assad regime, as well as its policies, had a pretty key role.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to blame Languish.

At least it isn't the jews this time. Progress!

[Martinus]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to blame Languish.

At least it isn't the jews this time. Progress!

Aren't the two almost synonymous? Just look at Malthus and Joan.

[Tamas]

Yesterday crisis was resolved by gathering up the marching-protesting people at the different points of the country, about 4500 of them and dumping them at the Austrian border, where Austria, after some deliberation, decided to let them in.

Here is how determined the Hungarian government was regarding the migrants:
Saturday: you can't go. Monday: you can go. Tuesday:no you can't go. And then yesterday.

And they also declared that this dumping of people on Austria was a one time thing due to the critical situation, but it won't happen again.

So I guess the message to the migrants are clear: cooperate with the hungarian authorities, remain calm, and you will rot in a camp for months until your asylum request is denied. Protest, fight, create chaos, and the state itself will help you to Austria.

This will not end well.

[Tamas]

And of course today again hundreds are marching on foot on motorways, leaving camps.

And Austria just closed the main border crossing, with 20-30 migrant-filled buses stuck on the Hungarian side

Cue Benny Hill soundtrack