EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[frunk]

True Euro-style welfare states probably could not survive mass immigration. Which is why it is kind of funny the left is so in favor of it. Grallon seems to get that part.

I figured you would see this as a feature and not a bug 

I think the welfare states can survive with adaptation, and in fact if done properly it could deal with the open borders problem.  Assign each state a "refugee pool" which would be money for refugees exclusively.  Set the amount based on GDP, population or whatever other desired metric.  Split the pool for a state evenly between all refugees to that state.  It'll encourage refugees to spread out amongst the member states rather than concentrating in just a few.

[Zanza]

Valmy's idea to just open the gates would not work. We need to limit and regulate migration. Our societal order with its huge achievement the social state does not allow limitless migration.

[Eddie Teach]

Neither do our reasonable real estate prices.

[Valmy]

Valmy's idea to just open the gates would not work. We need to limit and regulate migration. Our societal order with its huge achievement the social state does not allow limitless migration.

The migration would not be limitless. Having open borders in the EU has not meant an infinite number of Bulgarians have poured across your borders. It would be the same. Most people want to stay home.

[Syt]

The migration would not be limitless. Having open borders in the EU has not meant an infinite number of Bulgarians have poured across your borders.

There was (and is) a lot of fear mongering about "migration of poors" from Bulgaria and Romania into other, richer countries.

[Tamas]

Valmy's idea to just open the gates would not work. We need to limit and regulate migration. Our societal order with its huge achievement the social state does not allow limitless migration.

The migration would not be limitless. Having open borders in the EU has not meant an infinite number of Bulgarians have poured across your borders. It would be the same. Most people want to stay home.

In case of Bulgarians and other east euros you are right. However on a worldwide scale there are multiples of the entire EU population who have an absolutely shitty fate even compared to the poorest of the poor within the EU.

Funnily enough Orban is just talking about this in a press conference: he is calling it a "migration wave with limitless supply" and that's why he says we need to make it clear to those who would come: they cannot enter

[Zanza]

I think the welfare states can survive with adaptation, and in fact if done properly it could deal with the open borders problem.  Assign each state a "refugee pool" which would be money for refugees exclusively.  Set the amount based on GDP, population or whatever other desired metric.  Split the pool for a state evenly between all refugees to that state.  It'll encourage refugees to spread out amongst the member states rather than concentrating in just a few.

And if more come here, we let them starve? 

[Tamas]

BTW, while I think the quota system within the EU is the only sensible solution on the table at the moment, I have the suspicion that it will indirectly recreate the Palestinian refugee camps around Israel in many ways: de facto ghettos of poverty and seclusion.

[Norgy]

BTW, while I think the quota system within the EU is the only sensible solution on the table at the moment, I have the suspicion that it will indirectly recreate the Palestinian refugee camps around Israel in many ways: de facto ghettos of poverty and seclusion.

That depends on how it is done, doesn't it. Most European big cities shouldn't bear the brunt of more immigrants. Immigrants function better in smaller communities and get integrated better. However, people tend to seek to their own kin and nationality, and we end up with ghettos. My hometown needs more people, small places around Norway need more people and have proven adept at integrating people from such diverse places as Myanmar and Somalia. Oslo definitely doesn't need more people.

[crazy canuck]

BTW, while I think the quota system within the EU is the only sensible solution on the table at the moment, I have the suspicion that it will indirectly recreate the Palestinian refugee camps around Israel in many ways: de facto ghettos of poverty and seclusion.

Immigrants function better in smaller communities and get integrated better.

I don't think that is accurate.  Cities are where jobs and educational opportunities are more plentiful. 

[Liep]

BTW, while I think the quota system within the EU is the only sensible solution on the table at the moment, I have the suspicion that it will indirectly recreate the Palestinian refugee camps around Israel in many ways: de facto ghettos of poverty and seclusion.

Immigrants function better in smaller communities and get integrated better.

I don't think that is accurate.  Cities are where jobs and educational opportunities are more plentiful. 

Cities have jobs and education if you speak the language of the city.

[Valmy]

BTW, while I think the quota system within the EU is the only sensible solution on the table at the moment, I have the suspicion that it will indirectly recreate the Palestinian refugee camps around Israel in many ways: de facto ghettos of poverty and seclusion.

Immigrants function better in smaller communities and get integrated better.

I don't think that is accurate.  Cities are where jobs and educational opportunities are more plentiful. 

Cities are also where even a decent wage can have you living in a shithole.

[crazy canuck]

BTW, while I think the quota system within the EU is the only sensible solution on the table at the moment, I have the suspicion that it will indirectly recreate the Palestinian refugee camps around Israel in many ways: de facto ghettos of poverty and seclusion.

Immigrants function better in smaller communities and get integrated better.

I don't think that is accurate.  Cities are where jobs and educational opportunities are more plentiful. 

Cities have jobs and education if you speak the language of the city.

And in order to learn to speak the language education is required.

[crazy canuck]

BTW, while I think the quota system within the EU is the only sensible solution on the table at the moment, I have the suspicion that it will indirectly recreate the Palestinian refugee camps around Israel in many ways: de facto ghettos of poverty and seclusion.

Immigrants function better in smaller communities and get integrated better.

I don't think that is accurate.  Cities are where jobs and educational opportunities are more plentiful. 

Cities are also where even a decent wage can have you living in a shithole.

Reminds me of the Monty Python sketch, what you think of as a shithole is likely very welcome for these desperate people.

[Norgy]

BTW, while I think the quota system within the EU is the only sensible solution on the table at the moment, I have the suspicion that it will indirectly recreate the Palestinian refugee camps around Israel in many ways: de facto ghettos of poverty and seclusion.

Immigrants function better in smaller communities and get integrated better.

I don't think that is accurate.  Cities are where jobs and educational opportunities are more plentiful.

Yes and no.
If you're already educated, you might find a job.
Or you end up on welfare handouts and live with your own people, and resent society. Sort of like an immigrant Seedy.