EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Zanza]

Meant to be temporary, but how often is that actually the case?

Not sure, but the numbers suggest that Germany must deport quite a few or else we would have a larger number of foreigners under the status below.

As of 31 Dec 2014, there were in Germany:

240,955 persons with "Aufenthaltserlaubnis völkerrechtlich, humanitär, politisch" - these are accepted asylum claims, i.e. these people have a temporary legal right to remain in Germany
112,767 persons under "Duldung" - these are persons that should be deported but the deportation is currently suspended
177,900 persons under "Aufenthaltsgestattung" - these are persons that have their asylum claim processed at the moment
229,611 persons with neither of these, possibly illegal immigrants or victims of human trafficking etc.


Another 7.4 million foreigners with various legal status in Germany.

[Norgy]

I see why you guys would latch on to the "killing" part of his post as it's pretty outrageous, but I'm interested to hear what you have to say about his initial point-- "Do any of these people represent any sort of plus value for whichever country is saddled with them?"

There are lies and and damn lies and statistics, but most studies seem to agree immigrants usually become a net benefit over time. That excludes certain groups, such as Somalis.

[Syt]

According to Die Zeit, the German album charts on Amazon and the Austrian iTunes charts are currently led by "Schweigeminute", a minute of silence from Raoul Haspel who recorded it as protest against the situation in the Austrian refugee camp Traiskirchen (pre-orders, it'll be released next Friday). The proceeds all go towards improving the situation in the camp.

[Valmy]

[Admiral Yi]

Pretty sure that's a cover.

[Razgovory]

I see why you guys would latch on to the "killing" part of his post as it's pretty outrageous, but I'm interested to hear what you have to say about his initial point-- "Do any of these people represent any sort of plus value for whichever country is saddled with them?"

There are lies and and damn lies and statistics, but most studies seem to agree immigrants usually become a net benefit over time. That excludes certain groups, such as Somalis.

They've proven quite handy in the US.

[Martinus]

According to Die Zeit, the German album charts on Amazon and the Austrian iTunes charts are currently led by "Schweigeminute", a minute of silence from Raoul Haspel who recorded it as protest against the situation in the Austrian refugee camp Traiskirchen (pre-orders, it'll be released next Friday). The proceeds all go towards improving the situation in the camp.

I hope someone records and sells a minute of silence for other worthy causes. One could then have like 20 different minutes of silence, each for a different worthy cause that you could play on shuffle.

[Martinus]

Pretty sure that's a cover.

[Ancient Demon]

Either way - more will be coming. Even if we build Iron Curtain 2.0 and mine the Mediterranean to the point you could walk from mine to mine from one end to the other, people will find a way in. EU needs to figure out how to deal with it, beyond the knee jerk reaction of "not in my back yard!"

Just don't let them stay once they get in. The reason why they're going to such lengths to get in is because if they do, they'll get to stay. The problem is a lack of political will, it's very easy to simply round up and deport people.

[garbon]

Either way - more will be coming. Even if we build Iron Curtain 2.0 and mine the Mediterranean to the point you could walk from mine to mine from one end to the other, people will find a way in. EU needs to figure out how to deal with it, beyond the knee jerk reaction of "not in my back yard!"

Just don't let them stay once they get in. The reason why they're going to such lengths to get in is because if they do, they'll get to stay. The problem is a lack of political will, it's very easy to simply round up and deport people.

Yep, why that method has yielded great dividends in the US.

[Ancient Demon]

Either way - more will be coming. Even if we build Iron Curtain 2.0 and mine the Mediterranean to the point you could walk from mine to mine from one end to the other, people will find a way in. EU needs to figure out how to deal with it, beyond the knee jerk reaction of "not in my back yard!"

Just don't let them stay once they get in. The reason why they're going to such lengths to get in is because if they do, they'll get to stay. The problem is a lack of political will, it's very easy to simply round up and deport people.

Yep, why that method has yielded great dividends in the US.

That method hasn't really been tried in the US. Enforcement is very lax and you know it.

[garbon]

Sorry, but I'm not buying that if we spent more efforts on deportation that we'd really end up with a better outcome.

[Razgovory]

Raz no buy that argument either.

[Ancient Demon]

Sorry, but I'm not buying that if we spent more efforts on deportation that we'd really end up with a better outcome.

Obviously someone who considers limiting immigration to be despicable wouldn't think more deportation would lead to a "better outcome". It would be successful at reducing the numbers of illegal immigrants though.

[Martinus]

Sorry, but I'm not buying that if we spent more efforts on deportation that we'd really end up with a better outcome.

Obviously someone who considers limiting immigration to be despicable wouldn't think more deportation would lead to a "better outcome". It would be successful at reducing the numbers of illegal immigrants though.

It's not that it's despicable, it's just that it doesn't work. Immigration is an effect of a success of an empire - the greater the success (and, consequently, the greater the disparity between the standard of living in the empire and outside of it) the greater the immigration drive. You can't resist it, long term, any more than you can make a river run upstream (sure you can short term, but this usually requires a great expenditure of resources, and at the end your measure will fail).

The effect of immigration will be a relative reduction of the standard of living for those inside, yes, but as I said, you cannot prevent it.