Europeans, Pacificsm and Desertion

[Admiral Yi]

Yes, but desertion is the logical way out of both.

But the moral component is different.

[Jaron]

Tim expects you to die in an orderly way.

My people were born to steal.

[The Larch]

Yes, but desertion is the logical way out of both.

But the moral component is different.

At the end of the day, is self preservation both ways. Either not wanting to die for something you don't believe in/are against to or not wanting to die in a boneheaded operation with no chance or survival. Yes, morals are different, but the bottom line is not wanting to die for something you don't see a meaning to.

[Ed Anger]

Tim expects you to die in an orderly way.

My people were born to steal.

And pick lettuce.

[The Brain]

What should we make of this practice of immortalizing deserters? Morally speaking, it is a complicated matter. World War I was in many respects a dubious enterprise, and those who desert from unjust wars might correctly be regarded with sympathy. The issue grows murkier, however, when an admiration for deserters from particular wars bleeds into an admiration for desertion as a general practice. There is reason to worry that this is precisely what is happening--to fear that the monuments in Belgium and Britain are symptoms of European attitudes toward not just World War I soldiers but toward all soldiers, even those who fight in just causes. And, if that is true, one might well ask: Can a society that valorizes its deserters long survive?

Yes, we should worry about this problem. For it is huge.

[Jaron]

What should we make of this practice of immortalizing deserters? Morally speaking, it is a complicated matter. World War I was in many respects a dubious enterprise, and those who desert from unjust wars might correctly be regarded with sympathy. The issue grows murkier, however, when an admiration for deserters from particular wars bleeds into an admiration for desertion as a general practice. There is reason to worry that this is precisely what is happening--to fear that the monuments in Belgium and Britain are symptoms of European attitudes toward not just World War I soldiers but toward all soldiers, even those who fight in just causes. And, if that is true, one might well ask: Can a society that valorizes its deserters long survive?

Yes, we should worry about this problem. For it is huge.

Would you shut the fuck up? You're not funny. Man-child.

[The Brain]

What should we make of this practice of immortalizing deserters? Morally speaking, it is a complicated matter. World War I was in many respects a dubious enterprise, and those who desert from unjust wars might correctly be regarded with sympathy. The issue grows murkier, however, when an admiration for deserters from particular wars bleeds into an admiration for desertion as a general practice. There is reason to worry that this is precisely what is happening--to fear that the monuments in Belgium and Britain are symptoms of European attitudes toward not just World War I soldiers but toward all soldiers, even those who fight in just causes. And, if that is true, one might well ask: Can a society that valorizes its deserters long survive?

Yes, we should worry about this problem. For it is huge.

Would you shut the fuck up? You're not funny. Man-child.

You are fickle and prone to mood swings.

[Warspite]

It is disappointing that, given such a fascinating subject, the author chooses to bang a political 'euroweeinie' drum. No real mention of the incredible psychological trauma these men went through. No discussion of the real issue of the fact that some men, decent a godfearing, simply cannot cope with the terrible circumstances they find themselves in. Do you think the conscript asked to be in the hell of the trenches?

Of course people like Tim, whose experience of war is limited to a computer screen may find it disgusting to remember those who were caught in the madness and were found wanting. And perhaps Mr Oren could try to undestand why the Germans have a pacifist attitude pretty much by design.

Of course his point about Afghanistan is odd considering the contributions in blood of the British, Dutch and others.

[The Brain]

Oren means impure in Swedish. I rest my case.

[Admiral Yi]

At the end of the day, is self preservation both ways. Either not wanting to die for something you don't believe in/are against to or not wanting to die in a boneheaded operation with no chance or survival. Yes, morals are different, but the bottom line is not wanting to die for something you don't see a meaning to.

Self preservation is not a terribly praise-worthy motivation.

[jimmy olsen]

Of course people like Tim, whose experience of war is limited to a computer screen

What a shameless cheapshot!
I have also watched movies and read books on the subject.

[The Brain]

I will trust Siege on this like I do an all matters of war.

[Warspite]

At the end of the day, is self preservation both ways. Either not wanting to die for something you don't believe in/are against to or not wanting to die in a boneheaded operation with no chance or survival. Yes, morals are different, but the bottom line is not wanting to die for something you don't see a meaning to.

Self preservation is not a terribly praise-worthy motivation.

Neither is the quest for self annihilation :p

[The Larch]

At the end of the day, is self preservation both ways. Either not wanting to die for something you don't believe in/are against to or not wanting to die in a boneheaded operation with no chance or survival. Yes, morals are different, but the bottom line is not wanting to die for something you don't see a meaning to.

Self preservation is not a terribly praise-worthy motivation.

It's the most basic motivation of any animal, human or not, it's a primitive and indispensable instinct for survival, and people have been vilified for abiding to it.

[Lettow77]

Ive seen paths of glory, and I still think this is disgraceful. It's just not fitting to honour cowards. Why not honour war profiteers or those who were deliberately wounded to go home, while your at it?