Should the US raise the federal minimum wage?

[Admiral Yi]

The problem with that approach is that the segmentation of the market for the products doesn't match the segmentation of the market for the labor.  Sure, there are people willing to pay more for the presumed quality (or status) of the more expensive coffee, while others aren't, but workers at either business are performing unskilled labor, and the person who would work for minimum wage at Dunkin Donuts wouldn't turn down the opportunity to make more at Starbucks.

EDIT:  well, beaten to the punch.

This is not an insurmountable problem.  A number of people apply, and you pick as many as you want.

[grumbler]

The problem with that approach is that the segmentation of the market for the products doesn't match the segmentation of the market for the labor.  Sure, there are people willing to pay more for the presumed quality (or status) of the more expensive coffee, while others aren't, but workers at either business are performing unskilled labor, and the person who would work for minimum wage at Dunkin Donuts wouldn't turn down the opportunity to make more at Starbucks.

EDIT:  well, beaten to the punch.

This is not an insurmountable problem.  A number of people apply, and you pick as many as you want.

But your picks are random, unless workers have skills or attitudes.

[Jaron]

We must raise the minimum wage immediately! 15-20/hour.

[Siege]

Abolish.

If not for minimum wage, a gallon of milk would still be .25 cents.
And a million of dollars would still be a One Million, Austin Powers style.

[Eddie Teach]

Yes, the minimum wage is the cause of all inflation. 

[Admiral Yi]

That one needs a little work Seeb.

[DontSayBanana]

It's a brilliant political move to introduce a minimum wage that has no real effect.

The reverse of Timmy's question: for those of you who voted for anything other than abolishing the minimum wage, what was the reasoning that got you to your number?

When somebody talks about wanting to lower or abolish minimum wage, it's because they want to pay less.  Even in the unlikely event that doing so turns out not to be the Guinness record holder for worst possible economic decision, employers considering the option should be glad there is a minimum wage to protect them from the disastrous PR and dramatically reduced business that would ensue.

The market should not be used as a basis for economic welfare because the market is not altruistic.  The business can't generate currency, but it can increase its share of the currency in circulation, so the best option to the business is to undercut market value wherever possible.

"But that's unethical!" cried the Randian.  Well, surprise, human nature is pretty much the opposite of altruism- JP Morgan Chase Bank, Bank Suisse, HSBC, Royal Bank of Scotland, AIG, Bernie Madoff, Arthur Andersen, Enron... you pretty much can't go a month without at least some anecdotal evidence that you can't trust a big market actor to act in the best interests of its employees or even its clients or customers.

Even when something big like Walmart promising to raise its base pay happens, you can usually determine that it's in the long term a cost-saving measure or an attempt to get ahead of pending legislation or policy as much as if not more than it is consideration towards its employees.  Walmart's $10 minimum wage is probably more about standardizing bookkeeping in multiple states with varying minimum wages than it is about improving the quality of life for its workers, for example.

[Admiral Yi]

When I talk about abolishing the minimum wage, I am not doing it because I want to pay less.  I can't imagine any empirical basis for you to make this generalization.  It's plain vanilla Bill Maher style demonization of people who hold opinions you don't like.

Altruism doesn't have anything to do with it.  I didn't make purchases because I feel charitable towards the company or employees.  Companies don't hire employees because they feel charitable towards the employee.  Employees don't accept jobs because they feel charitable towards the employer.  All these actors do what they do because they feel they come out ahead.  They do it out of self interest.

[crazy canuck]

When I talk about abolishing the minimum wage, I am not doing it because I want to pay less.  I can't imagine any empirical basis for you to make this generalization.  It's plain vanilla Bill Maher style demonization of people who hold opinions you don't like.

Altruism doesn't have anything to do with it.  I didn't make purchases because I feel charitable towards the company or employees.  Companies don't hire employees because they feel charitable towards the employee.  Employees don't accept jobs because they feel charitable towards the employer.  All these actors do what they do because they feel they come out ahead.  They do it out of self interest.

And because companies only act in their self interest they should be unregulated?

[Valmy]

All these actors do what they do because they feel they come out ahead.  They do it out of self interest.

Which, coincidentally, is also why increases to it get passed by politicians.

[grumbler]

All these actors do what they do because they feel they come out ahead.  They do it out of self interest.

Which, coincidentally, is also why increases to it get passed by politicians.

And, coincidentally, why some people support it and others oppose it. 

[Valmy]

And, coincidentally, why some people support it and others oppose it. 

Indeed. It is self interest all the way down.

[grumbler]

And, coincidentally, why some people support it and others oppose it. 

Indeed. It is self interest all the way down.

Adam Smith 101

[jimmy olsen]

L.A. will raise the wage to $15 by 2020

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/05/19/los-angeles-approves-15-dollar-minimum-wage/27604949/

MONEY
L.A. to boost minimum wage to $15

Michael Winter, USA TODAY
25 minutes ago

Los Angeles lawmakers Tuesday voted to boost the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020, the largest city to try to help its lowest-paid workers survive amid the nation's growing income inequality.

The action will gradually increase the guaranteed hourly wage from $9 in the country's second largest city. Chicago, San Francisco and Seattle have enacted similar measures. The council's 14-1 vote directs the city attorney to draft an ordinance that will require final approval later this year.

The first increase, to $10.50 an hour, will come July 1, 2016, followed by annual steps until July 2020, when the minimum wage will stand at $15 an hour. Two years later, increases will be pegged to the Consumer Price Index.

For non-profit organizations with 25 or fewer employees, the scheduled raises won't begin until 2017.

"Today, help is on the way for the one million Angelenos who live in poverty," Mayor Eric Garcetti said in a statement, adding that the minimum wage "should not be a poverty wage in Los Angeles."

Organized labor backed an increase but sought $15.25 an hour and sooner than 2020.

The local Chamber of Commerce opposed the move, saying businesses would have to cut staff, reduce hours or relocate, the Los Angeles Times reported.

"The very people (council members') rhetoric claims to help with this action, it's going to hurt," said Ruben Gonzalez of the Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce. It's simple math. There is simply not enough room, enough margin in these businesses to absorb a 50-plus-percent increase in labor costs over a short period of time."

A survey released Tuesday by Los Angeles County Business Federation found that 35% of the nearly 600 local business owners questioned said the wage boost would force them to cut jobs or workers' hours, with small businesses being hit hardest.

The same survey found that 66% believe business conditions will improve this year, and that 40% are planning to hire more workers -- a 10% increase over 2014.

After the L.A. council last year boosted the hourly rate to $15.37 per hour wage for hotel workers, the campaign for a higher citywide minimum wage gathered steam. Garcetti initially proposed $13.25 by 2017, but labor organizers representing workers in other low-paid industries -- gaming, food service, airport, textile, manufacturing, distribution, laundry and transportation -- lobbied hard for $15.

[The Minsky Moment]

Adam Smith 101

+ Mancur Olson