Is the Obama Honeymoon Over?

[Ed Anger]

Canadians smell like feet.

[Barrister]

Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that medical procedures that are insured through such things as HMOS need to be approved before the procedure can take place.  If you had been following the thread before you barged in you would have noticed the BB's main complaint about our system is that if the doctor decides the procedure is medically necessary then the health care plan pays for it.  There is no insurance bean counter interposed between the patient and the doctor.

You haven't proven that is necessarily a better system however.

Since I have had pretty good health my experience with doctors has been largely through my files at work (and my aunt who is a GP).  I find that doctors tend to be some of the least-objective people around when it comes to their patients.  They wind up going into total patient advocate mode.  Perhaps an "insurance bean counter" system is superior.

Really I don't know enough of either system to say which is superior.  I do like to object to fellow Canadians who treat our own health care system as being some marvel of public policy, when it so clearly is flawed.

[Berkut]

Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that medical procedures that are insured through such things as HMOS need to be approved before the procedure can take place.  If you had been following the thread before you barged in you would have noticed the BB's main complaint about our system is that if the doctor decides the procedure is medically necessary then the health care plan pays for it.  There is no insurance bean counter interposed between the patient and the doctor.

You haven't proven that is necessarily a better system however.

Since I have had pretty good health my experience with doctors has been largely through my files at work (and my aunt who is a GP).  I find that doctors tend to be some of the least-objective people around when it comes to their patients.  They wind up going into total patient advocate mode.  Perhaps an "insurance bean counter" system is superior.

Really I don't know enough of either system to say which is superior.  I do like to object to fellow Canadians who treat our own health care system as being some marvel of public policy, when it so clearly is flawed.

LIke I said, I think there is plenty to be said for and against the US health care system. I would *never* argue that is is better than the Canadian one though - I cannot say that the Canadian is so great, but I know that any system where we pay so much for, well, a lot, but still at an exorbitant cost, cannot be much of a model for anyone else.

Funny how something as pedestrian as health care can give rise to these kinds of feeling of nationalism though. At least in some people.

[crazy canuck]

You haven't proven that is necessarily a better system however.

Since I have had pretty good health my experience with doctors has been largely through my files at work (and my aunt who is a GP).  I find that doctors tend to be some of the least-objective people around when it comes to their patients.  They wind up going into total patient advocate mode.  Perhaps an "insurance bean counter" system is superior.

Really I don't know enough of either system to say which is superior.  I do like to object to fellow Canadians who treat our own health care system as being some marvel of public policy, when it so clearly is flawed.

One objective measure in which it is better is that everyone is insured.  According to Berkut his coverage costs a "bloody fortune" for the same thing we all get for free.

You object that our system spends too many resources on its patients.  I take it that it the way in which you say it is "clearly flawed". I would prefer to have that kind of system then have a system that interjects insurance approval between a patient and their doctor.  Although Berkut said I was wrong about the approval thing he then went on to say that it did in fact happen so I am not really sure what the situation is there.

[Scipio]

Obama got really snarky with a reporter today re: Iran rhetoric, when he was asked if his tougher language was in response to the comments of McCain and Graham.  He said, "What do you think?"

Ouch.  Law prof returns.

[Berkut]

You haven't proven that is necessarily a better system however.

Since I have had pretty good health my experience with doctors has been largely through my files at work (and my aunt who is a GP).  I find that doctors tend to be some of the least-objective people around when it comes to their patients.  They wind up going into total patient advocate mode.  Perhaps an "insurance bean counter" system is superior.

Really I don't know enough of either system to say which is superior.  I do like to object to fellow Canadians who treat our own health care system as being some marvel of public policy, when it so clearly is flawed.

One objective measure in which it is better is that everyone is insured.  According to Berkut his coverage costs a "bloody fortune" for the same thing we all get for free.

You object that our system spends too many resources on its patients.  I take it that it the way in which you say it is "clearly flawed". I would prefer to have that kind of system then have a system that interjects insurance approval between a patient and their doctor.  Although Berkut said I was wrong about the approval thing he then went on to say that it did in fact happen so I am not really sure what the situation is there.

I don't think it was that confusing - I said that you were certainly wrong to say that you cannot get procedures done without prior approval, and stated that I can be 100% certain this is true since I have experienced that myself.

I went on to say that perhaps it is different with other insurers - unlike some, I am loathe to make sweeping generalizations based on urban legend and nationalistic jingoism, so I don't want to try to speak for the entire country, much less some OTHER entire country.

[crazy canuck]

You haven't proven that is necessarily a better system however.

Since I have had pretty good health my experience with doctors has been largely through my files at work (and my aunt who is a GP).  I find that doctors tend to be some of the least-objective people around when it comes to their patients.  They wind up going into total patient advocate mode.  Perhaps an "insurance bean counter" system is superior.

Really I don't know enough of either system to say which is superior.  I do like to object to fellow Canadians who treat our own health care system as being some marvel of public policy, when it so clearly is flawed.

One objective measure in which it is better is that everyone is insured.  According to Berkut his coverage costs a "bloody fortune" for the same thing we all get for free.

You object that our system spends too many resources on its patients.  I take it that it the way in which you say it is "clearly flawed". I would prefer to have that kind of system then have a system that interjects insurance approval between a patient and their doctor.  Although Berkut said I was wrong about the approval thing he then went on to say that it did in fact happen so I am not really sure what the situation is there.

I don't think it was that confusing - I said that you were certainly wrong to say that you cannot get procedures done without prior approval, and stated that I can be 100% certain this is true since I have experienced that myself.

I went on to say that perhaps it is different with other insurers - unlike some, I am loathe to make sweeping generalizations based on urban legend and nationalistic jingoism, so I don't want to try to speak for the entire country, much less some OTHER entire country.

But you are loathe to overstate.  A brief review of the Wiki page on HMOS indicates there are approvals which are required.

Not sure why you insist on the over the rhetoric.  I hope someone else who knows a bit more about how HMOS operate can give some information in a non inflamatory manner.

[Admiral Yi]

Canuck, you do realize a pretty small % of Americans are covered by HMOs, right?

[Hansmeister]

The funny thing is that abot 15% of Canadians lack a primary physician due to lack of doctors, which is about the same percentage that lack health insurance in the US.

[DGuller]

The funny thing is that abot 15% of Canadians lack a primary physician due to lack of doctors, which is about the same percentage that lack health insurance in the US.

We have that problem here in US as well, for the same reasons.  In the age of specialization, no one wants to be the boring old family practitioner.

[Berkut]

But you are loathe to overstate.  A brief review of the Wiki page on HMOS indicates there are approvals which are required.

And there are approvals that are required for your healthcare (at times) as well. So what? That doesn't mean that it is any more or less "rationed".

Not sure why you insist on the over the rhetoric.

I am not sure I know what that sentence means. Is that some Canadian colloquialism or something?

  I hope someone else who knows a bit more about how HMOS operate can give some information in a non inflamatory manner.

So you are rejecting my information - do you think I am lying when I say I get tests done routinely without prior approval?

[Valmy]

We have that problem here in US as well, for the same reasons.  In the age of specialization, no one wants to be the boring old family practitioner.

Why anybody would ever want to be a Doctor in the US is completely beyond me.  Being a doctor seems like one of the truly shit jobs out there: you have to work so hard to get a job that pays poorly, works you long long hours, and is high stress. 

[Berkut]

We have that problem here in US as well, for the same reasons.  In the age of specialization, no one wants to be the boring old family practitioner.

Why anybody would ever want to be a Doctor in the US is completely beyond me.  Being a doctor seems like one of the truly shit jobs out there: you have to work so hard to get a job that pays poorly, works you long long hours, and is high stress. 

I will give you the long hours and stress, but pays poorly? Huh?

[Valmy]

I will give you the long hours and stress, but pays poorly? Huh?

One of my very good friends added up the amount of hours he worked one year compared to how much he had been paid and I think it came out to something stupid like $9 an hour.

But this varies alot by exactly what sort of doctor you are, but I mean primarily people who take the traditional route to primary care and not decide to do boob jobs or whatever.

[Berkut]

I will give you the long hours and stress, but pays poorly? Huh?

One of my very good friends added up the amount of hours he worked one year compared to how much he had been paid and I think it came out to something stupid like $9 an hour.

But this varies alot by exactly what sort of doctor you are, but I mean primarily people who take the traditional route to primary care and not decide to do boob jobs or whatever.

Sounds like horseshit to me.

I know quite a few doctor's. Some of them work incredibly hard, some not that hard. They all are rather well paid though.