Is the Obama Honeymoon Over?

[Barrister]

Of course it is complete nonsense.  We know how single payer systems save money: they simply ration health care.

ignorance is bliss I suppose.

I have never once had my health care rationed.  It is this kind of idiotic rhetoric that makes your system so messed up.

What is a waiting list but rationing by another name?

Ah - Berkut already made that point.

[crazy canuck]

It isn't noticeable?

I've heard plenty of anecdotes at least about long wait times for health care - that is certainly "noticeable", isn't it?

That has nothing to do with "rationing" of health care.  That is a function of the provincial governments not being able to hire enough doctors.  Rationing is a process of the government (or in the US an insurer) telling a doctor he cannot perform a procedure the doctor deems medically necessary.  That simply does not happen in Canada.

BTW I have never had a wait of more then a few days for any test or any other procedure I might require.  I understand that the big waits are around things like hip replacement surgury and such - eg the treatment of chronic problems in the elderly.  The demand has simply swamped the supply of operating rooms and doctors for those procedures.  But for  acute problems I have not heard of any waiting periods.  Quite the opposite.  If you have symptoms of a heart attack (as an example) you would get immediate excellent care.

[Admiral Yi]

ignorance is bliss I suppose.

I have never once had my health care rationed.  It is this kind of idiotic rhetoric that makes your system so messed up.

How often have you had an MRI?

[crazy canuck]

What is a waiting list but rationing by another name?

Ah - Berkut already made that point.

You think the government says to doctors.  Ok folks you already performed 1000 of operation x.  You may not perform anymore?

As you already said, there is a shortage of doctors.  You seem to think that is be design but I have already showed you data that you are wrong about that.

[crazy canuck]

How often have you had an MRI?

More often then I would like to remember.

I had a lot of sports related injuries...

[Valmy]

That has nothing to do with "rationing" of health care.  That is a function of the provincial governments not being able to hire enough doctors.  Rationing is a process of the government (or in the US an insurer) telling a doctor he cannot perform a procedure the doctor deems medically necessary.  That simply does not happen in Canada.

BTW I have never had a wait of more then a few days for any test or any other procedure I might require.  I understand that the big waits are around things like hip replacement surgury and such - eg the treatment of chronic problems in the elderly.  The demand has simply swamped the supply of operating rooms and doctors for those procedures.  But for  acute problems I have not heard of any waiting periods.  Quite the opposite.  If you have symptoms of a heart attack (as an example) you would get immediate excellent care.

Hush Americans know far more about how Canada's system works than ignorant Canadians

Seriously though where would I go to get some stats on average wait times for certain procedures?  It is not like we don't have health care worker shortages here in the US also.

[crazy canuck]

Seriously though where would I go to get some stats on average wait times for certain procedures?  It is not like we don't have health care worker shortages here in the US also.

Wait times are published by provincial governments on a fairly regular basis.  It is one of the methods politicians use to let the public know that they are spending enough on health care.

[Barrister]

You think the government says to doctors.  Ok folks you already performed 1000 of operation x.  You may not perform anymore?

As you already said, there is a shortage of doctors.  You seem to think that is be design but I have already showed you data that you are wrong about that.

That's not how it works.  Instead the government has a system that can only do 1000 of operation X per year.  If there are actually need to be 1100 of operation X they don't expand the capacity, they just put you on the waiting list.

And the shortage of doctors was by design.  It was a move in the 80s-90s to help cut costs.  The fact that policy has been reversed doesn't mewan it can be fixed overnight.  It takes 4 years to get an MD, plus several years to finish residency.  If changes were made 8 years ago we'd only now get the first cohort of new doctors thie year.

And my wife has been having some chronic pain in her knee.  She asked about getting an MRI - they laughed and said maybe in a year.

[Valmy]

And my wife has been having some chronic pain in her knee.  She asked about getting an MRI - they laughed and said maybe in a year.

Doh!

[Berkut]

It isn't noticeable?

I've heard plenty of anecdotes at least about long wait times for health care - that is certainly "noticeable", isn't it?

That has nothing to do with "rationing" of health care.  That is a function of the provincial governments not being able to hire enough doctors.  Rationing is a process of the government (or in the US an insurer) telling a doctor he cannot perform a procedure the doctor deems medically necessary.  That simply does not happen in Canada.

Of course it has to do with rationing health care. The provider is not willing to spend the funds necessary to provide enough services that waits do not happen - that is rationing. And I am sure that the government in Canada has some list of "medically necessary" procdeures and under what circumstances they should be provided - surely a doctor cannot simply say 'Yeah, Berkut needs a heart transplant!" even if I do not meet some criteria for it?

[Berkut]

And my wife has been having some chronic pain in her knee.  She asked about getting an MRI - they laughed and said maybe in a year.

Well, you know, as long as there isn't any rationing!

[jimmy olsen]

I can't get MRIs on my legs anymore, too much metal.

This is your medical non sequitur of the day.

[crazy canuck]

And my wife has been having some chronic pain in her knee.  She asked about getting an MRI - they laughed and said maybe in a year.

Well, you know, as long as there isn't any rationing!

He lives in the middle of nowhere.  He will necessarily not get the same access to medical treatment as someone who lives in a big city.

But then you knew that....

[Barrister]

And my wife has been having some chronic pain in her knee.  She asked about getting an MRI - they laughed and said maybe in a year.

Well, you know, as long as there isn't any rationing!

He lives in the middle of nowhere.  He will necessarily not get the same access to medical treatment as someone who lives in a big city.

But then you knew that....

While our access isn't exactly the same, we do have comparable medical coverage.

Anyone who needs an MRI gets flown down south for one.

[Berkut]

And my wife has been having some chronic pain in her knee.  She asked about getting an MRI - they laughed and said maybe in a year.

Well, you know, as long as there isn't any rationing!

He lives in the middle of nowhere.  He will necessarily not get the same access to medical treatment as someone who lives in a big city.

But then you knew that....

So people in the big city never have to wait for MRIs, or other routine medical care? Or even non-routine medical care?

And really, I have no idea what access he has - it would not surprise me if there is a regional hospital or clinic in his area that had an MRI machine, for example. Doesn't surprise me that there isn't either - but no, I did NOT know that.