English papers charge interns for privilege of internship

[Martinus]

I'm inclined to agree, but would question how much our intellect, good looks, work ethic etc are less of an inheritance than any wealth we happen to receive.

For sure. There's certainly an argument that intellectual capacity, good looks, work ethic etc are related to your parents and how you were brought up, and is thus a form of inheritance.

Nonetheless, there's still the difference in that if some rich fellow has an important and interesting job and he's actually really good at it and works hard, that's a whole lot more palatable than some guy who's there because of connections and social status and is a complete idiot at the job.

As well, there's the fact that those other qualities are likely easy to acquire than ensuring you're born into a wealthy family.

But being able to work as an unpaid intern is not the function of one's inherent qualities (whether such are influenced by one's upbringing or not) but one's wealth solely.

Not sure if you are arguing for or against this, by the way.

[Valmy]

but one's wealth solely.

Or credit limit.

[Jacob]

But being able to work as an unpaid intern is not the function of one's inherent qualities (whether such are influenced by one's upbringing or not) but one's wealth solely.

Not sure if you are arguing for or against this, by the way.

I was going off on the tangent RH started, so I was neither arguing for or against.

That said, I think interns should be paid; and in fact I pay my interns.

[Martinus]

Ok. I think there are two more points at least to consider in your analysis.

1. To what extent personal bias is disguised as personal merit. What I mean by that - we talk a lot about all these inherent traits that come from proper upbringing etc. - but how many of these are not really relevant, except as a tool of discrimination? It is scientifically proven that we tend to see people who are like us as virtuous. So a white protestant heterosexual male will see another white protestant heterosexual male as more virtuous than, say, a black muslim woman - simply because they share more cultural traits that, objectively, are not relevant.

2. We address "inherited meritocratic privilege" through trying to provide equal opportunity to young people - we don't have to choose people for jobs at random, as RH suggests.

Edit: Sorry if the above sounds more like a sketch of an argument than an actual argument - very tired and having a headache.

[Admiral Yi]

There is nothing preventing gays, women, blacks, whomever, from taking advantage of any perceived bias, scooping up all the meritorious people overlooked by the straight white hegemons, and making a mint of money.

[CountDeMoney]

That said, I think interns should be paid; and in fact I pay my interns.

I know you guys like to goof on me for being teh olds, but when exactly did the term "internships" no longer mean "students working for semester credit" and become something else?

Just for shits and giggles, I looked up a couple of course catalogs for some universities this morning, and "internships" were listed as upper level electives for degree credit, just like they used to be when I was going to school; so I know I'm not totally fucking off base here.

Paid interns = employees.

[Martinus]

Seedy, coming to think of it, I think it changed because of the crisis, to be honest. When I started work, I was an intern while still in college. That was back in 1999 and I got a full time job within 3 months (while still at college).

Now, we stopped hiring people during 2008-2010. And then when we started hiring again, people who have already graduated (and were unemployed for 2-3 years) started to join as interns. I wonder if this is why the perception changed. What do you think, guys?

[Martinus]

By the way, even in 1999 I was still paid as an intern (although it was about 1/30 of what I earn now).

[Jacob]

That said, I think interns should be paid; and in fact I pay my interns.

I know you guys like to goof on me for being teh olds, but when exactly did the term "internships" no longer mean "students working for semester credit" and become something else?

Just for shits and giggles, I looked up a couple of course catalogs for some universities this morning, and "internships" were listed as upper level electives for degree credit, just like they used to be when I was going to school; so I know I'm not totally fucking off base here.

Paid interns = employees.

I think students working for semester credit should get paid as well. They should get semester credit and money, IMO.

But yeah, the line between junior employee (especially if a new grad) and intern are getting somewhat blurred these days.

[Maximus]

That said, I think interns should be paid; and in fact I pay my interns.

I know you guys like to goof on me for being teh olds, but when exactly did the term "internships" no longer mean "students working for semester credit" and become something else?

In my program that's called "practicum" and it is distinct from an internship which may be paid. Internships are between the student and the employer, a practicum also has an academic adviser involved.

[Ed Anger]

That said, I think interns should be paid; and in fact I pay my interns.

I know you guys like to goof on me for being teh olds, but when exactly did the term "internships" no longer mean "students working for semester credit" and become something else?

Just for shits and giggles, I looked up a couple of course catalogs for some universities this morning, and "internships" were listed as upper level electives for degree credit, just like they used to be when I was going to school; so I know I'm not totally fucking off base here.

Paid interns = employees.

I think students working for semester credit should get paid as well. They should get semester credit and money, IMO.

But yeah, the line between junior employee (especially if a new grad) and intern are getting somewhat blurred these days.

I think they should be happy i'm signing their damn paper telling thier shitty professor they were a good little boy or girl.

Now fetch my coffee, intern!

[CountDeMoney]

In my program that's called "practicum" and it is distinct from an internship which may be paid. Internships are between the student and the employer, a practicum also has an academic adviser involved.

That's just being a snobby program.   

[mongers]

In my program that's called "practicum" and it is distinct from an internship which may be paid. Internships are between the student and the employer, a practicum also has an academic adviser involved.

That's just being a snobby program.   

That's the Latin; I had to sign a document today which contained a fair bit of latin, stating I had not received more the 200,000 Euro in funding recently. 

[Razgovory]

Actually knowing Latin doesn't even help since the phrases that are used don't always make sense on their own.  Like Exempli grata and Id est.

[CountDeMoney]

In my program that's called "practicum" and it is distinct from an internship which may be paid. Internships are between the student and the employer, a practicum also has an academic adviser involved.

That's just being a snobby program.   

That's the Latin; I had to sign a document today which contained a fair bit of latin, stating I had not received more the 200,000 Euro in funding recently. 

Big deal.  Used to take a Colloquium every so often in my program.  Still a fucking seminar, Latin or not.