English papers charge interns for privilege of internship

[Richard Hakluyt]

It seems to me that these desirable jobs will always go to the privileged, their privilege can be based on family wealth (as today) or their level of intellect (in a meritocratic system). In order to really promote social mobility we should hand out the jobs by holding lotteries.

[Warspite]

It seems to me that these desirable jobs will always go to the privileged, their privilege can be based on family wealth (as today) or their level of intellect (in a meritocratic system). In order to really promote social mobility we should hand out the jobs by holding lotteries.

There's a difference between the rich having a leg-up over a fence or a ladder over a 15-foot high wall.

[Valmy]

It doesn't matter. Our societies (again, excepting America which doesn't really have any civilized concept of education and employment rights) are built around the principle (and usually have built-in supports) that parents support their children through education, but once education finishes, children should be able to live on their own. By making internships unpaid, you are effectively preventing educated young people who come from poorer families and/or from the country, from competing, because their families can no longer support them. As in practice, having an internship experience then serves as a gateway to a well paid job, you are effectively segregating people according to social classes, while maintaining the illusion of a meritocracy.

Of course you could argue that many people have to work already while getting college education - but the difference here is that education allows you to get a paid job in your free time. Internship is normally already a full time job.

Indeed.  I was saying that this is not really the fault of irresponsible rich kids who love working for free.  I am sure even the trustfund kids would prefer the entry level jobs in their chosen career were well paying.  They are just doing what the newspaper profession demands they do, and they have the means to do so.  They might not even be rich either, they might just be willing to shoulder large amounts of debt.  That is hardly a better situation.

I don't get the point about American education and employment.  Pretty sure our society is based around the exact same idea and pretty sure the same forces that are creating this situation in England are creating similar social disruption here.

[garbon]

Marti loves his random ill informed digs at the US.

[CountDeMoney]

Marti loves his random ill informed digs at the US.

Honestly, I had no idea that a student registering for an upper-level internship elective in college for a semester is "effectively preventing educated young people who come from poorer families and/or from the country, from competing, because their families can no longer support them."

I'm a better American for knowing that now, thanks to some lawyer in an Eastern European shithole.

[Sheilbh]

Internships aren't in college. If you do any work in industry in uni you normally get paid for it. These are people's first (few years of) full-time jobs.

Back when I left uni you technically weren't allowed to, but could claim benefits while you were doing an internship. I've a couple of friends who got started in their industry that way, now they'd have no chance.

[Jacob]

It seems to me that these desirable jobs will always go to the privileged, their privilege can be based on family wealth (as today) or their level of intellect (in a meritocratic system). In order to really promote social mobility we should hand out the jobs by holding lotteries.

I think meritocratic privilege is generally a whole lot more palatable than inherited privilege.

[Admiral Yi]

It's interesting the different ways the word benefits is used in our countries.

[CountDeMoney]

Internships aren't in college.

Yes, they are.  Maybe not in your foreign country, but that doesn't negate the fact that they do, in fact, exist in college.  Or, as you would say, "at university".

[DontSayBanana]

Marti, if an American intern isn't being paid, they're either 1) not doing work, or 2) working for someone who's breaking the law.

I'm actually kind of surprised- I assumed the euros would have, at the very least, something akin to our recent ruling that if a student's doing work for the company's benefit more for their own, they can't be denied wage compensation.

[CountDeMoney]

Marti, if an American intern isn't being paid, they're either 1) not doing work, or 2) working for someone who's breaking the law.

Or 3) a student.

[Sheilbh]

I'm actually kind of surprised- I assumed the euros would have, at the very least, something akin to our recent ruling that if a student's doing work for the company's benefit more for their own, they can't be denied wage compensation.

I think the courts have ruled that they now need to be paid minimum wage with a few exceptions. Not sure if it's happening yet.

[DontSayBanana]

Internships aren't in college. If you do any work in industry in uni you normally get paid for it. These are people's first (few years of) full-time jobs.

Back when I left uni you technically weren't allowed to, but could claim benefits while you were doing an internship. I've a couple of friends who got started in their industry that way, now they'd have no chance.

Not only do internships happen in college here, many degree programs actually require some form of internship.  In fact, some curriculum programs are required to have an internship element- US teachers and paralegals have to complete practicum, for example.  The college my girlfriend attended required every student to complete an internship program in order to graduate.

I'm not required to do one, but it's also common to take one when not required during college here, since it's one of the few ways around the "need field experience to get a job in the field" catch-22 (I'm planning on doing this next school year).

[Richard Hakluyt]

It seems to me that these desirable jobs will always go to the privileged, their privilege can be based on family wealth (as today) or their level of intellect (in a meritocratic system). In order to really promote social mobility we should hand out the jobs by holding lotteries.

I think meritocratic privilege is generally a whole lot more palatable than inherited privilege.

I'm inclined to agree, but would question how much our intellect, good looks, work ethic etc are less of an inheritance than any wealth we happen to receive.

[Jacob]

I'm inclined to agree, but would question how much our intellect, good looks, work ethic etc are less of an inheritance than any wealth we happen to receive.

For sure. There's certainly an argument that intellectual capacity, good looks, work ethic etc are related to your parents and how you were brought up, and is thus a form of inheritance.

Nonetheless, there's still the difference in that if some rich fellow has an important and interesting job and he's actually really good at it and works hard, that's a whole lot more palatable than some guy who's there because of connections and social status and is a complete idiot at the job.

As well, there's the fact that those other qualities are likely easy to acquire than ensuring you're born into a wealthy family.