Grand unified books thread

[Gups]

I got to know Susanna Clarke from the forum - yes, almost twenty years ago. I took about as much time for her to finish her second novel. I am looking forward to reading it.

https://www.vulture.com/article/susanna-clarke-piranesi.html?fbclid=IwAR2d59LRneufpDJ5X_4SjFVW2wAHtktxPwvjbTUCstj0FYz-ZvFGwmsicDM

I've been waiting for this!

Has a very positive review in the Times at the weekend.

[Sheilbh]

Another history prize long-list - haven't read any but super-excited for Fifth Sun, Lakota America and Providence Lost on my wishlist.

I think it's the first year I don't know anyone on the jury.

I heard good things about Fifth Sun and Tacky's Rebellion. Have you read Hämäläinen's previous book, Comanche Empire?

I've not - it's also on the wishlist though.

[Threviel]

Having seen Greyhound I ordered The Good Shepherd. I don't normally read very much war novels, but last year I read the Cruel Sea and my eyes kind of opened.

The movie was god, but I felt that it did not convey the length of time that the battle lasted. The book, much like the movie, centers around Commander Krause and his viewpoint. Great book giving a feel of how utterly horrible the battle of the Atlantic must have been. Not really up to the level of the Cruel Sea, but still excellent.

[The Brain]

The second and third commandments be damned?

[Malthus]

Having seen Greyhound I ordered The Good Shepherd. I don't normally read very much war novels, but last year I read the Cruel Sea and my eyes kind of opened.

The movie was god, but I felt that it did not convey the length of time that the battle lasted. The book, much like the movie, centers around Commander Krause and his viewpoint. Great book giving a feel of how utterly horrible the battle of the Atlantic must have been. Not really up to the level of the Cruel Sea, but still excellent.

Re-read the Cruel Sea recently. That was one brutal book.

Perhaps the most horrific scene was when a young officer had to take care of a rescued sailor suffering terrible burns ... and all he had was a small tube of burn ointment (and zero knowledge of
Medicine). Or perhaps when the crew of the escort was forced to watch as the crew of a burning tanker tried, but failed, to outswim the spread of burning oil from the tanker.

[Threviel]

Stuff of nightmares from someone that was there for the whole war. Just absolutely nightmarish. And the merchant seamen were treated quite badly after the war.

Swedish sailors that were caught outside the North Sea when war started couldn't return for the duration. When they returned they could be arrested for evading military service and most of them got into serious trouble with regards to their taxes due to not declaring their income during the war. It wasn't until the late 90's that their services were recognized.

[grumbler]

In both the US and the UK, no service suffered a greater death rate than the merchant marine (27% KIA for the UK, 4% KIA for the US).  I haven't seen numbers for the Canadians, but I suspect that they are about half-way between those numbers.  I know that the Dutch merchant marine suffered heavy losses as well.

[crazy canuck]

Cline is writing an update to 1177 which will be out in February.

[Malthus]

In both the US and the UK, no service suffered a greater death rate than the merchant marine (27% KIA for the UK, 4% KIA for the US).  I haven't seen numbers for the Canadians, but I suspect that they are about half-way between those numbers.  I know that the Dutch merchant marine suffered heavy losses as well.

Good estimate.

Casualties for the Canadian merchant marine during WW2 were one in seven, or approximately 14%, according to this cite.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/history/historical-sheets/merchant

[Threviel]

Reading up and on it surprises me. Sweden lost about 2000 sailors and 270 ships.

In the battle of the Atlantic 36000 merchant seamen died and 3500 ships went down.

I don't know how many Swedes died trading with Germany, but presumably a big part since the German trade was called the "death trade".

Big numbers for a small nation. Norway by comparison lost about 3000 seamen.

[Barrister]

In both the US and the UK, no service suffered a greater death rate than the merchant marine (27% KIA for the UK, 4% KIA for the US).  I haven't seen numbers for the Canadians, but I suspect that they are about half-way between those numbers.  I know that the Dutch merchant marine suffered heavy losses as well.

According to https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/history/historical-sheets/merchant 12,000 Canadians served in the merchant nacy, with 1500 dead, for a 12.5% KIA rate.

[Valmy]

Supposedly the German sailors in the U-boat service suffered 75% casualties (and given the nature of their service I wouldn't be surprised if the large majority of those were KIA). That is a pretty crazy for an entire service arm.

[grumbler]

Supposedly the German sailors in the U-boat service suffered 75% casualties (and given the nature of their service I wouldn't be surprised if the large majority of those were KIA). That is a pretty crazy for an entire service arm.

Yep.  Doenitz kept sending out the boats even when he knew it was suicidal.  US submariners suffered something like 10% casualties.

Another fun fact:  more US sailors died off the shore of Guadalcanal than US Marines died on the shore... but the US Marines have this mantra that the "US Navy abandoned us on Guadalcanal."  In fact, many more US sailors were KIA on November 13, 1942 (First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal) than Marines died in the whole campaign.  Ungrateful bastards! 

[11B4V]

Well you are just a taxi service to them.

[grumbler]

Well you are just a taxi service to them.

Marine = My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment.

Actually, I really enjoyed working with US Marines.  They are the most "real" of the US services, in that they are totally mission-oriented and they don't let bureaucratic shit get in their way.  If their tanks are Army cast-offs, they just get on with it.