Europe's Populist Left

[Ed Anger]

Price? 2 cents.

[Monoriu]

Price? 2 cents.

Huh?  There is no way I'll pay 2 cents for a pocket book.  I use stationary supplies from hotels that I stayed in.  Just to make sure they don't go to waste, of course.  I also have other...sources. 

[Ed Anger]

You remind me of people that make their own soap.

[Sheilbh]

I'm not sure that the book of someone who makes risky mainland investments and steals office supplies from the government is necessarily what the Greeks should be following, however frugal he may be

[Monoriu]

You remind me of people that make their own soap.

All of my soap bars come from hotels

[Eddie Teach]

No one cares what's in your book

It's mostly sketches from an anime he's developing, about a HK government clerk who secretly wishes he could be an accountant in Canada. There's a dozen hot girls who flirt with him regularly. Also, he can fly.

[Martinus]

If things continue as they seem to be I'm beginning to suspect they may end up losing their hard-left supporters but end up winning a lot of centrist, middle class votes instead.

Yeah, they have been behaving very sensibly so far. The drug junkie metaphor was one I thought of myself before, so given my track record with analogies, I am not sure if it works.

[Martinus]

You remind me of people that make their own soap.

All of my soap bars come from hotels

So on top of other evidence that you are a horrible human being, you are also a thief? Nice.

By the way, it seems yellow umbrella protests are coming back.

Mono's Horror: "I Have Cheap Gas But I Can't Drive" coming back to the street near you.

[Martinus]

No one cares what's in your book

Also, he can fly.

But the only way he uses his superpower is to avoid road blocks on his way to the office.

[Razgovory]

You remind me of people that make their own soap.

All of my soap bars come from hotels

So on top of other evidence that you are a horrible human being, you are also a thief? Nice.

By the way, it seems yellow umbrella protests are coming back.

Mono's Horror: "I Have Cheap Gas But I Can't Drive" coming back to the street near you.

Well, the soap is free, but unless he travels a lot he probably smells funny.  If he's collecting the liquid soap in the mens room at his office he's probably okay.  Smell wise.  If he does that he's probably nuts.

[Eddie Teach]

But the only way he uses his superpower is to avoid road blocks on his way to the office.

Nonsense, think of all the money he can save.

[Monoriu]

You remind me of people that make their own soap.

All of my soap bars come from hotels

So on top of other evidence that you are a horrible human being, you are also a thief? Nice.

By the way, it seems yellow umbrella protests are coming back.

Mono's Horror: "I Have Cheap Gas But I Can't Drive" coming back to the street near you.

There was a march yesterday, and that was an annual ritual.  The turnout was around 10,000, which was a record low in recent years.  Nothing happened.  No occupations, no arrests, no fights.  It was over in a few hours. 

[Monoriu]

The organiser originally expected 50,000 people (they needed to state the number of participants in the protest permit, which they obtained legally).  The protest leaders had to explain all day to the media why the turnout was so low. 

[Monoriu]

Hong Kong democracy movement back on road, but turnout down

But low turnout for march taken as a sign some want more radical action

PUBLISHED : Sunday, 01 February, 2015, 2:39pm

UPDATED : Monday, 02 February, 2015, 8:44am

Tony Cheung, Phila Siu, Ernest Kao and Samuel Chan

Hong Kong democracy movement back on road, but turnout down

Thousands of pro-democracy campaigners unfurled yellow umbrellas for yesterday's march - but many stayed away. Photo: Felix Wong

Turnout for the first major pro-democracy march of the post-Occupy era fell well short of expectations yesterday - but organisers rejected suggestions people were growing less determined about the fight for democracy.

Rather it was a sign Hongkongers no longer had faith in "conventional ways" of protesting, Civil Human Rights Front convenor Daisy Chan Sin-ying said. She said more "alternative" forms of civil disobedience could emerge unless the government heeded public opinion on "genuine democracy".

The front put turnout for the march from Victoria Park in Causeway Bay to Central at 13,000. Independent academics put the turnout at 11,000 to 12,000, while police said 6,600 left the park, with a peak turnout of 8,800. Chan had expected 50,000 people to show up. About 30,000 turned out for the New Year's Day march last year, the front said.

The march was pushed back to coincide with a consultation on reform, which pan-democrats are boycotting as the government refuses to budge from Beijing's limits on nominations for the 2017 chief executive election.

Police opened four lanes, one more than usual, outside the Sogo department store, in an apparent effort to avoid the location from turning into a bottleneck. Photo: Tony Cheung

"This [turnout] only shows that Hongkongers are no longer satisfied with conventional ways of protest," Chan said. "If people are tired of marches, it's not the front which is in trouble but the government."

Chinese University political scientist Ivan Choy Chi-keung also said the turnout could be a sign the protest was "too moderate" for supporters fired up by the 79-day Occupy street blockades.

"They may also need more time to rest [after Occupy] ... or do not feel the urgency to take to the streets again," Choy said.

Protesters hold a head banner that appeals for "genuine universal suffrage" as they march from Victoria Park. Photo: Felix Wong

Occupy co-founder Benny Tai Yiu-ting agreed supporters might need some "rest" after the street protests, but said "it doesn't mean they are no longer fighting for democracy".

Tai led the march with his two co-founders Dr Chan Kin-man and Reverend Chu Yiu-ming, veteran Democrat Martin Lee Chu-ming and Daisy Chan. As the crowd waved yellow umbrellas and other Occupy symbols, the five held a banner which read: "Reject fake democracy; we want real universal suffrage."

A policeman directs pedestrians as demonstrators shout slogans before the march. Photo: AFP

About 2,000 police lined the route and stopped at least three groups from setting up stalls.

Mother-of-one Carol Leung, 34, said she marched because "I am afraid that Hong Kong will become like [mainland] China".

14-year-old Gabriel Lam designed a "North Korean" Hong Kong flag. Photo: Tony CheungGabriel Lam, 14, carried a Hong Kong/North Korea flag he had designed. "Hong Kong is becoming more and more like North Korea, because the democracy that officials talk about seems fake," he said, adding the hermit state gave people votes but no choice of candidates.

Some Occupy veterans said they chose not to march as they doubted its effectiveness. In response, a government spokesman urged citizens "to adopt an accommodating, rational and pragmatic approach" to forge consensus on political reform.

In Tai Po, meanwhile, there were clashes between democracy supporters and a group staging a pro-police protest. Police threatened to use pepper spray and issued warning notices telling the crowd to disperse. A 13-year-old boy and two men, aged 22 and 39, were arrested.

Sense of futility on sidelines of rally

Financial researcher Eric Fok had his hands in his pockets as he stood outside the Hong Kong Central Library, watching the thousands of protesters streaming onto Causeway Road from Victoria Park.

"I support them at heart. I support the umbrella movement," said Fok, who is in his 40s.

"But I am busy today, and the government won't listen to you no matter what you do."

Fok was one of the many Hongkongers standing on the sidelines of yesterday's rally who support the democracy cause but did not take part, partly because they doubt the government would ever listen.

Others said that as the Occupy movement, which shook Hong Kong for 79 days, had failed to force the government to offer genuine universal suffrage, rallies like the one yesterday would hardly do so.

Yellow umbrellas from Hong Kong's Occupy Movement are passed out to marchers. Photo: Felix Wong

The Facebook page of the rally organiser, the Civil Human Rights Front, was flooded with comments saying protests would not work. Others wrote that they were disappointed the front did not organise a rally on New Year's Day, like it had been doing for years.

Those who took part in the rally yesterday had a more optimistic view.

"It is a continuation of the Occupy spirit. We want to choose our own chief executive. We do not want to choose from several rotten oranges," said 67-year-old Ng Yin-fai.

"Uncle Wong", a 91-year-old retired farmer who was always seen at the Occupy protest site, was also at the rally.

"I will keep coming to fight for democracy. As long as I can walk I will be here," said Wong, who was considered a symbol of the Occupy movement.

Retailers remain divided about whether such protests can ever be an effective force for change.

"Many people have become antagonistic towards protests," said Alan Yu King-bun, a manager at Ko Lai Tong, a Korean snack shop on Yee Wo Street.

For more than six years, Jason Pang, the owner of luggage store the P&L Company on nearby Causeway Road, has put up with large rallies passing by his store.

"They have an objective, so even if it did affect our business a bit, we still accept it," Pang said. He added that many people were frustrated with the government, including small-business owners like himself.

"The government must look out for all strata of society, not just their rich friends," Pan said.

This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as Democracy campaign back on road

[Sheilbh]

Britain's more or less echoed Obama the stand-off's dangerous for everyone, both sides need to compromise and be reasonable. The IMF's always been the most dove-ish of the Troika. My guess is that it'll get even more so now.

Now Varoufakis is off to the City where, no doubt, he'll tell everyone that they're totally committed to paying back private sector creditors in full.

It is amazing how much sympathy there is for the Greeks in the Anglo-Saxon media. When Marti mentioned naive lefties earlier I did think it doesn't seem to be a left-right thing so much as Anglo-Saxon/Euro. Even very right-wing commentators who think we need to cut spending a lot more and that Europe needs far, far more supply-side reforms broadly take the view, to quote Jeremy Warner - right-wing, of the Telegraph, 'we are all Syriza supporters now'

Having said that many of them still expect them to fail, so... Warner also says this:

Mr Varoufakis is said to be an expert on game theory. I guess it is in the nature of playing a good game that you must keep your opponents guessing to the last. Mr Varoufakis has no option but to play hardball. Brinkmanship was always going to be the substantive part of his negotiating strategy. But what's going on at the moment is just chaotic nonsense. It's impossible to know what Mr Varoufakis wants. Far from making progress, what Syriza is actually doing right now is leading Greece over the cliff. How does the Greek government propose to pay its bills once the money runs out? If the ECB doesn't do it first, the Bundesbank will surely move shortly to block the Target 2 transfers currently necessary to fund capital flight from the Greek banking system.

The reality is that Syriza is not just playing a dangerous game, it is playing no game at all likely to produce anything other than abject disaster. I had high hopes of Mr Varoufakis, but am fast losing my faith. Capital controls and limits on cash withdrawals from Greek banks can be only weeks, if not days away.

Edit: On the other hand I'm alarmed at how the media have twice whipped up a storm about the Greek government in the last few days that seem to have been based on a mistranslation/misunderstanding of what was said. It's standard to an extent but it does seem important to try for clarity in this sort of situation.

Edit: Actually a lot of the best pieces I've read have come from the right. I think it's because the left is a combination of too excited, trying to draw lessons for Ed Miliband and then too depressed on the realisation that Ed Miliband is Ed Miliband