Europe's Populist Left

[The Brain]

We tried Socialism in Sweden and it didn't work.

When did you stop?

[Tamas]

Doesn't matter, point is they need to pay for it, and Greeks don't pay taxes.

In large part because of the patronage politics of PASOK and ND. Even if you don't support Syriza's policies, I think it's inevitable that any change to the corrupt status quo has to come from outside the political groups who built it and benefited from it.

The thing is, of course, that based on my experience of the rest of the wider region, the problems in Greece aren't some short term freak incident: they are hardcoded in society, or has been hard coded in the past decades. Which means two things: you can't expect them to be solved suddenly by a new party out of the blue unless they pull a Pinochet, and more importantly, blatant populism will just repeat past mistakes.

Austerity might have been the wrong answer, but sensless public spending (decreasing of retirement age, etc) is the wrong answer for sure. It is the EXACT THING that put these countries, or at least Greece for sure, into trouble. To keep relying on it is a dangerous illusion.

And yes we are reliving the 30s and seems like making the same mistakes, too.

[Razgovory]

Sure the advice I gave six years ago turned into a terrible disaster, but still my ideology tells me that the alternative is worse!

[Admiral Yi]

Sure the advice I gave six years ago turned into a terrible disaster, but still my ideology tells me that the alternative is worse!

By definition it's worse.  If you default you get to run a deficit of zero, as opposed to the 4% or whatever your German sugar daddy is willing to finance.

[celedhring]

Greece is running a primary surplus now, though.

[Razgovory]

Sure the advice I gave six years ago turned into a terrible disaster, but still my ideology tells me that the alternative is worse!

By definition it's worse.  If you default you get to run a deficit of zero, as opposed to the 4% or whatever your German sugar daddy is willing to finance.

I didn't know we were talking about "default".

[Admiral Yi]

I didn't know we were talking about "default".

What did you think we were talking about?

[Neil]

Greece is running a primary surplus now, though.

But austerity isn't going to last.

[Razgovory]

I didn't know we were talking about "default".

What did you think we were talking about?

Spending vs the Austerity.

[Admiral Yi]

Spending vs the Austerity.

Where should Greece and friends have gotten the money to spend? 

[Ideologue]

Would I like the Podemos?

[mongers]

Would I like the Podemos?

Why not, they have a burning hate of 'The System' just like you.   

[celedhring]

Would I like the Podemos?

Chomsky is a huge fan.

[Ideologue]

I'm a huge fan of Chomsky.   Well, his linguistic work.  I actually forget what his weirdo politics are, probably not centrally-controlled enough.

[celedhring]

Podemos is just a few months old, and to be honest their actual politics are still muddled and confused - which is best for them since any angry Spaniard can then imagine them as the party they'd wish them to be. They talk a lot about street-level democracy but they are big statists in practice - at least going off stuff in their program.

No mention of implementing a surveillance state, though, sorry.