The Tragedy of the American Military

[grumbler]

Why would anyone care about draft dodging in any event?  The draft ended 40 years ago, and should have been ended sooner if the US wanted to use their military on pointless wars that they'll fight to lose, like Vietnam.

Everyone is expected to do his duty.  Those who shirk do not deserve to live here.  Shit, at least get some conscientious objector gig or request non-combat duty.

How many years did you serve in the military?

[grumbler]

I don't agree.  There's no shame in avoiding going out there to get shot at for no purpose.  The US had decided to lose the war in Vietnam, so why participate?  Maybe if you were black, because then you could get the training to fight your real enemy, the United States.  But it'd still be pretty risky, especially since you'd have to subordinate yourself to racist officers.

2/10

[Ed Anger]

I served 15 years online. I bunny hopped though the ETO.

[Tonitrus]

What about those who serve their country in other ways?  Like being a teacher?

Under certain circumstances, sure.  I think that's what Dave Barry did as a conscientious objector.

Are there some circumstances when serving in the military is not a form of serving your country?

Sure-- e.g., cases where you're not a citizen of said country.

That kind of irks me (but I'll give the benefit of the doubt if you didn't mean it in the following case), as there are plenty of folks serving in the U.S. military who are not yet citizens, but are striving to be.  I would say they are serving our country, and what could fairly said be their adopted country.

[CountDeMoney]

as there are plenty of folks serving in the U.S. military who are not yet citizens, but are striving to be.  I would say they are serving our country, and what could fairly said be their adopted country.

Security risks.

[Tonitrus]

as there are plenty of folks serving in the U.S. military who are not yet citizens, but are striving to be.  I would say they are serving our country, and what could fairly said be their adopted country.

Security risks.

I think overly-idealistic Millennials are the greatest security risk.  Jaded curmudgeons are America's last line of defense.

[PDH]

I think overly-idealistic Millennials are the greatest security risk.  Jaded curmudgeons are America's last line of defense.

Get the fuck out of Laramie, hippie.

[Neil]

I don't agree.  There's no shame in avoiding going out there to get shot at for no purpose.  The US had decided to lose the war in Vietnam, so why participate?  Maybe if you were black, because then you could get the training to fight your real enemy, the United States.  But it'd still be pretty risky, especially since you'd have to subordinate yourself to racist officers.

2/10

If I was really trolling, I would have said that the US military lost all legitimacy when they mothballed their dreadnoughts.

[Alcibiades]

A draft dodger?  Fuck him.  Let someone else make the point.

It's easy to hate on draft dodgers.  But I don't think there are many in the military who would want to serve alongside someone who really doesn't want to be there that much.  Not because of their impression of their character, but in terms of their motivation/dedication.

That might be true in today's US military, because everyone is used to an all-volunteer service.  I don't think the same attitude would prevail among those who served between 1940 and 1975.

Exactly.  I don't think most people who got drafted wanted to be drafted or sent to Vietnam, but they didn't 'bitch out' or take the easy way out. 


While he brings up some good points, misses the mark completely on others, it just seems bullshit coming from someone of his background as if hes speaking from the inside.   

[Razgovory]

The old army from the Korean war to the Vietnam war still had a very large core of volunteers and professional NCOs.  I remember reading that 75% of soldiers in Vietnam were volunteers.  Draftees tended to go to Europe, Korea, Japan or stay in the US.

[Capetan Mihali]

Two of my colleagues -- one at the old office, one at the current one -- were in the Army during the Vietnam War and were sent to Vietnam. 

They both got drafted and just showed up for induction like they were told to.  The first one was drafted after college at the peak of the war and the second was drafted after high school a couple years later.  They were both stationed on base during their respective years in Vietnam, the first as a typist and the second as a truck mechanic.  Then rotated back to the US, at bases in California and the South, both having all their family and friends back in New England.  Then given honorable discharges and that was that.

Neither of them really seem to have any strong feelings or anything to say about it.  They each told me it felt like a complete waste of two years of their lives and that their service seemed pointless.  No memorable anecdotes or harrowing tales; no pride in serving and no resentment at being drafted -- just a two-year blank spot that consumed ages 22-24 and 19-21 a long time ago, before and after which they lived their real young adult lives.

These accounts are almost the oddest to hear, given how emotionally overloaded the whole Vietnam experience is in the American psyche.

[crazy canuck]

No, it's one thing to be a coward.  Vietnam era draft dodgers, in the main, weren't cowards--they were Commie sympathizers.

Some of them were traitors and some were cowards.

Others were smarter than most.

[Siege]

Pretty good article.  I've worked with a lot of senior military officers (and CSM) and what I've noted was how remarkably uninspiring most of them are. Far more often than not they are essentially plain bureaucrats who rose to the top by never making any waves.  Being boring and unimaginative seem to be prerequisites to rise to the top. I've met many very interesting and competent Colonels, who never make it to flag officer rank, the selection criteria is certainly broken.

You, my friend, are absolutely right.
When I look at the ribbon rack on any CSM, I see no combat awards whatsoever.
They all got the right schools, but few if any has been in the shit and has the little metal hanging on his chest to prove it.

My impression is senior NCOs are hostile to combat focused hot shots.

[Siege]

Two of my colleagues -- one at the old office, one at the current one -- were in the Army during the Vietnam War and were sent to Vietnam. 

They both got drafted and just showed up for induction like they were told to.  The first one was drafted after college at the peak of the war and the second was drafted after high school a couple years later.  They were both stationed on base during their respective years in Vietnam, the first as a typist and the second as a truck mechanic.  Then rotated back to the US, at bases in California and the South, both having all their family and friends back in New England.  Then given honorable discharges and that was that.

Neither of them really seem to have any strong feelings or anything to say about it.  They each told me it felt like a complete waste of two years of their lives and that their service seemed pointless.  No memorable anecdotes or harrowing tales; no pride in serving and no resentment at being drafted -- just a two-year blank spot that consumed ages 22-24 and 19-21 a long time ago, before and after which they lived their real young adult lives.

These accounts are almost the oddest to hear, given how emotionally overloaded the whole Vietnam experience is in the American psyche.

But this should be rather the norm than the exception. As I said, only one out of seven Soldiers is an infantryman.
Which is kind of telling me that there a lot of mechanics, cooks, and supply dudes with great war stories out there.

After seen the Hall Of Shame : http://guardianofvalor.com/hall-of-shame/
I do not believe war stories people say unless I know the dude personally and are other guys around that were there and can vouch for the story.

[Ideologue]

So were Boomers just allowed to walk into Canada and work and stuff?