How Many Great People Are Good People?

[Razgovory]

Sulla

I've often wondered about your... predilection for Sulla.  Is it because he was ruthless or because he had a thing for boys, which he denied most of his life, only to indulge in it when all he set out to do was accomplished?

EDIT: *if* we are to believe McCullough that is...



G.

He was a novelist.

[Tonitrus]

Abraham Lincoln was cunning when he needed to be, but overall a decent fellow I think.

[Admiral Yi]

Abraham Lincoln was cunning when he needed to be, but overall a decent fellow I think.

Good one.  Doted on his sons, patient with his nut case wife.

[Tonitrus]

Abraham Lincoln was cunning when he needed to be, but overall a decent fellow I think.

Good one.  Doted on his sons, patient with his nut case wife.

If he is vulnerable anywhere, I suppose those who are unbendable on civil rights would take great issue with his wartime attitude towards habeus corpus and such.

And maybe being too tolerant/detached towards crappy generals.  But then I think he might also be a rare leader who knew that military strategy was not his forte, and tried to leave it the supposed experts as best he could.

[DGuller]

Barack Obama seems to be a pretty decent bloke.

[Razgovory]

Compared to Medieval European monarchs, Asiatic step lords, and Middle Eastern Emperors most US presidents are going to look pretty good.

[Tonitrus]

Compared to Medieval European monarchs, Asiatic step lords, and Middle Eastern Emperors most US presidents are going to look pretty good.

New Word > Old World 

[Tonitrus]

But seriously, it may be more a matter of time than of place.  The further you go back in history/civilization, the more it seemed necessary to dispense with some moral niceties, or else the plethora of other murderous, power-hungry thugs will just walk/stab all over you.

Also, wasn't Marcus Aurelius supposed to be alright, compared to many Roman emperors?

[Razgovory]

Abraham Lincoln was cunning when he needed to be, but overall a decent fellow I think.

Good one.  Doted on his sons, patient with his nut case wife.

If he is vulnerable anywhere, I suppose those who are unbendable on civil rights would take great issue with his wartime attitude towards habeus corpus and such.

And maybe being too tolerant/detached towards crappy generals.  But then I think he might also be a rare leader who knew that military strategy was not his forte, and tried to leave it the supposed experts as best he could.

I don't know about tolerant or detached toward crappy generals.  He was constantly sending telegrams ordering them to move their asses.  He canned quite a few.  The problem was there was nobody on either side that had experience moving such large armies and very few who even had the academic knowledge of military matters.  Political generals were generally incompetent, but they often carried their weight by bring in volunteers.  It's hard to turn down the services of a congressman who bring with him 2,000 men to fight for the cause.  You fire the popular political general and you run the risk of those soldiers just going home.

[CountDeMoney]

how many of our 'luminaries' here would secretly enjoy to indulge in a killing spree if they had the chance.

I've compiled an extensive and comprehensive list.

[Ed Anger]

I better top that list.

[Eddie Teach]

Sulla

I've often wondered about your... predilection for Sulla.  Is it because he was ruthless or because he had a thing for boys, which he denied most of his life, only to indulge in it when all he set out to do was accomplished?

EDIT: *if* we are to believe McCullough that is...



G.

He was a novelist.

with a vagina... But she gets the scoop from Plutarch.

[dps]

Barack Obama seems to be a pretty decent bloke.

Yeah, but the question was how many great people are also good people.  Jimmy Carter is a very good person, but he was really crappy President.  President Obama is the same, I think, though not as extreme as Carter.  And least anyone think I'm just being partisan here, I'd say the same about Gerald Ford, and to a lesser extent, both Bushes.

[CountDeMoney]

I better top that list.

You're in the "Douchebags most likely to be in a Lexus Christmas Commercial" subcategory.

[CountDeMoney]

Jimmy Carter is a very good person, but he was really crappy President.

History will determine whether or not he was really crappy, thank you.