Thaw in US - Cuba relations

[derspiess]

Took a look at Breitbart's site to get the idea of what real conservatives thought.  Apparently we just "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory".

WE HAD THEM ON THEIR KNEES DAMMIT

[Barrister]

Apparently President Obama thanked Canada for helping to expedite talks with Cuba.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/12/17/white-house-canada-cuba_n_6342342.html

[crazy canuck]

We have very nice hotel rooms here.

I was interested to read the Vatican was also involved.  As I keep saying, the more I hear about this Pope the more I like him.

[Razgovory]

Took a look at Breitbart's site to get the idea of what real conservatives thought.  Apparently we just "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory".

WE HAD THEM ON THEIR KNEES DAMMIT

It's funny that a lot of conservatives really seem to believe this.  Also Syria is basking in the great victory it won over the US.

[Eddie Teach]

The hell she wouldn't.

Berkut and Seedy would make her cry.

[Ed Anger]

There goes Puerto Rico's tourism.

Between Canadian butthurt and this, I got an Obama boner.

[Josephus]

At the very least, the Castros will not be able to use the policy to excuse Cuba's dismal economic performance.

Yeah, because all those other Caribbean nations are blowing the doors of the world economy.  There's only so much you can do with large sandbars beyond tourism, a handful of tropical staples and pitching prospects.

I've been arguing this for years...even from a pro-Cuban/socialism stance.

People say "Look at the failures of socialism...look at Cuba." And I'm like...what....compared to the capitalist rich environs of Domincan Republic? Haiti?

[Admiral Yi]

Probably the fairest comparison is to the Cuban standard of living pre 1959.

[dps]

You have normal relationships with Saudi Arabia, not exactly a democracy, not exactly in the top 10 for human rights respect either.  Same for China, and many former Soviet Republic where you have military bases.

I'm aware of those.  Yet as I mentioned, there are cases in which we have punished countries with sanctions for actions similar or identical to what Cuba does.  Were those misguided?

Or, as I'm beginning to suspect, does it all depend on international popularity?

Ok, what are those countries that were punished for doing the same thing as Cuba?
Let's start with the Revolution.  They were replacing a non democratic government by another non-democratic gov.  Not big deal there.

Violation of human rights?  We (occidental countries), tolerate pretty much all abuse up 'til it goes to full blown genocide or mass murder, and even then, it takes a while to really isolate a country.  IIRC, the USA did not stop any & all relations with Russia.  American businessmen are free to engage in trades with Russia too, something they can't do with Cuba.

Cuban missile crisis.  Those were soviet missiles, it's a cold war problem, best forgotten and left in the past.

I think there was a plane shot down once, but it was a US spy plane right?  Besides, I'm pretty sure Russia and China did it too.

Aside that I can't really see...  I'm not being obtuse, I just don't see it for now

The reason for the embargo was because of un-compensated seizure of property owned by US citizens and US-based companies. 

Now, I'm sure other countries have seized such property without compensation, but a lot of other countries that have had "revolutionary" governments have also had minimal US investment prior to their revolutions.  US investment in Cuba was pretty substantial.

[Josephus]

BTW, to go back to something said a few posts ago...in my many trips to Cuba (and whilst these last few vacations have been resort vactations, in the past I have travelled the length and breadth of Cuba, even in non-tourist towns) I have come across some Americans. The ones I spoke to flew in from either Mexico or Jamaica and ask for their passports not to be stamped.

[mongers]

You have normal relationships with Saudi Arabia, not exactly a democracy, not exactly in the top 10 for human rights respect either.  Same for China, and many former Soviet Republic where you have military bases.

I'm aware of those.  Yet as I mentioned, there are cases in which we have punished countries with sanctions for actions similar or identical to what Cuba does.  Were those misguided?

Or, as I'm beginning to suspect, does it all depend on international popularity?

Ok, what are those countries that were punished for doing the same thing as Cuba?
Let's start with the Revolution.  They were replacing a non democratic government by another non-democratic gov.  Not big deal there.

Violation of human rights?  We (occidental countries), tolerate pretty much all abuse up 'til it goes to full blown genocide or mass murder, and even then, it takes a while to really isolate a country.  IIRC, the USA did not stop any & all relations with Russia.  American businessmen are free to engage in trades with Russia too, something they can't do with Cuba.

Cuban missile crisis.  Those were soviet missiles, it's a cold war problem, best forgotten and left in the past.

I think there was a plane shot down once, but it was a US spy plane right?  Besides, I'm pretty sure Russia and China did it too.

Aside that I can't really see...  I'm not being obtuse, I just don't see it for now

The reason for the embargo was because of un-compensated seizure of property owned by US citizens and US-based companies. 

Now, I'm sure other countries have seized such property without compensation, but a lot of other countries that have had "revolutionary" governments have also had minimal US investment prior to their revolutions.  US investment in Cuba was pretty substantial.

Yeah, they shouldn't have crossed the Mob.

[Josephus]

Looks like I have a year or two before I have to worry about bumping into a Budweiser-drinking overweight American from Texas in speedos and a 10-gallon hat on the beach,and his wife.

http://www.thestar.com/business/2014/12/17/cuba_moves_could_drive_canadian_tourism.html

[Admiral Yi]

How many acres of sugar cane do you figure the mob planted in 58 mongers?

[dps]

How many acres of sugar cane do you figure the mob planted in 58 mongers?

Would 58 mongers even cover an acre?

[Admiral Yi]

Would 58 mongers even cover an acre?

Depends how thin you spread them.