Poland to list all WW2 victimes on the internet

Started by viper37, June 15, 2009, 01:28:53 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Faeelin

Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 01:52:57 PM
Anyway, the site lists Jewish and Roma historical organisations as participants in the project, so yeah non-ethnic-Poles are also included obviously.

I know it's not intentional, but the phrasing "It will include all non-ethnic Poles" sums up why Interwar Poland was so fucked up.

Martinus

Quote from: Faeelin on June 15, 2009, 04:04:16 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 01:52:57 PM
Anyway, the site lists Jewish and Roma historical organisations as participants in the project, so yeah non-ethnic-Poles are also included obviously.

I know it's not intentional, but the phrasing "It will include all non-ethnic Poles" sums up why Interwar Poland was so fucked up.
I think you have a skewed perspective, as an American. Many Europeans even today view nationality and ethnicity in that way. America is an exception - certainly Poland wasn't one in 1939.

Berkut

Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 03:58:22 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 15, 2009, 03:51:33 PM
What about the Jews exterminated by the Poles?

That was after the war so doesn't count.  :contract:

They killed even more Jews AFTER the war?

Wow. Where did they find more Jews to kill?
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Berkut on June 15, 2009, 04:11:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 03:58:22 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 15, 2009, 03:51:33 PM
What about the Jews exterminated by the Poles?

That was after the war so doesn't count.  :contract:

They killed even more Jews AFTER the war?

Wow. Where did they find more Jews to kill?
The survivors returned and found themselves unwelcome.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Martinus

#19
Quote from: Berkut on June 15, 2009, 04:11:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 03:58:22 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 15, 2009, 03:51:33 PM
What about the Jews exterminated by the Poles?

That was after the war so doesn't count.  :contract:

They killed even more Jews AFTER the war?

Wow. Where did they find more Jews to kill?

I'd say (but I don't have hard data on this), it was not "even" but "mainly" - I guess during the war, it was not necessary as Germans were doing it.

With Jews, this was the combination of resentment for the survivors returning to claim back their houses etc. (which were by the time settled by ethnic Poles) and the perception that Jews sided with communists (although I think this was more of an excuse). Of course centuries of antisemitic propaganda from the Catholic church helped a lot.

Guys, when I tell you about Polish Catholics, I know what I'm talking about. Many of Jews (and also Orthodox Ukrainians - the fact that Eastern Catholic Ukrainians were largely left alone implies a religious/cultural more than an ethnic/racist motive, btw) were slaughtered with an active participation (or at least no condemnation) from the Church hierarchy. Taking a cue from American and English catholics as to what true Catholicism looks like is like judging Communism by the deeds of the French Communist Party. If you want to see the real European Catholicism look at Poland (pogroms), Ireland (terrorism), Italy (mafia) and Spain (fascism).

Ed Anger

Quote from: Berkut on June 15, 2009, 04:11:07 PM


Wow. Where did they find more Jews to kill?

They tended to be concentrated in small areas.

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

viper37

Quote from: Grey Fox on June 15, 2009, 01:31:12 PM
I'm not sure Marty will do anything.

It's not about Gay America.
true, but there were probably a couple of gay Poles sent to the camps, don't you think?
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Martinus

Quote from: viper37 on June 15, 2009, 05:09:26 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 15, 2009, 01:31:12 PM
I'm not sure Marty will do anything.

It's not about Gay America.
true, but there were probably a couple of gay Poles sent to the camps, don't you think?
Actually, I'd imagine probably not that many. Unlike in Germany, in Poland the nazis focused on Jews and the Roma. I know of several famous Polish gays who lived through the WW2 in conditions that were no different from heteros (meagre as they may have been).

Alcibiades

Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 01:49:20 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 15, 2009, 01:28:53 PM
Quite an ambitious project waste of taxpayers' money.

There, I fixed your post for you.

See, doesn't involve enough gays. 
Wait...  What would you know about masculinity, you fucking faggot?  - Overly Autistic Neil


OTOH, if you think that a Jew actually IS poisoning the wells you should call the cops. IMHO.   - The Brain

Neil

I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Faeelin

Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 04:10:10 PM
I think you have a skewed perspective, as an American. Many Europeans even today view nationality and ethnicity in that way. America is an exception - certainly Poland wasn't one in 1939.

Heh, a joke for you all from the Lodz ghetto.

A woman wakes up and turns to her husband. "I just had the most wonderful dream! I was walking outside, and the walls were plastered with "Beat the Jews!" and "End ritual slaughter!"

"What was so wonderful about that?"

"Don't you see? It meant the Poles were back in charge!"

Sheilbh

Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 04:22:34 PMTaking a cue from American and English catholics as to what true Catholicism looks like is like judging Communism by the deeds of the French Communist Party.
Spanish or Italian Communist Parties would be a better fit.  The French Communist Party was probably the most conservative and Soviet in Europe.
Let's bomb Russia!

Razgovory

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2009, 08:35:13 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 04:22:34 PMTaking a cue from American and English catholics as to what true Catholicism looks like is like judging Communism by the deeds of the French Communist Party.
Spanish or Italian Communist Parties would be a better fit.  The French Communist Party was probably the most conservative and Soviet in Europe.

Everyone found the Spanish catholics weird.  The fact is that the reasons behind the Polish killings of Jews have little to do with religion an all to do with the fact Poles don't like Jews.  They did the same stuff Gypsies.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Martinus

Quote from: Razgovory on June 15, 2009, 09:51:58 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2009, 08:35:13 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2009, 04:22:34 PMTaking a cue from American and English catholics as to what true Catholicism looks like is like judging Communism by the deeds of the French Communist Party.
Spanish or Italian Communist Parties would be a better fit.  The French Communist Party was probably the most conservative and Soviet in Europe.

Everyone found the Spanish catholics weird.  The fact is that the reasons behind the Polish killings of Jews have little to do with religion an all to do with the fact Poles don't like Jews.  They did the same stuff Gypsies.

Read "Fear" by Jan T. Gross about the role the catholic church played in the pogroms. Why do you think Poles didn't like Jews?

Jaron

Because they have massive inferiority complexes?
Winner of THE grumbler point.