Yugoslav travels

[Josquius]

Sometime early next year I'm thinking of taking a holiday in the Balkans.
Ragusa is probably to be my launching point and a must see place but whilst in the area I'd also be interested in seeing some interesting stuff in other nearby countries (Bosnia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Albania, maybe Macedonia and very maybe southern Serbia)

Has anyone ever travelled in the area?
Any experience with driving there?- perhaps the best way to get around as scary as it is.
Any must see places beyond Dubrovnik?

[Sheilbh]

Dubrovnik's great. I'd also recommend some Croatian island time, because every summer holiday needs that.

Mostar's worth visiting as a day trip. Get the bus in, get the bus out because after you've seen the bridge and walked round the old town there's not much else to do. But it is beautiful.

Sarajevo's great. If you decide to visit there let me know and I'll get some tips of restaurants and bars.

I have heard that there's some nice bits of the Montenegran coast left but that lots of it has been overdeveloped. However people I know absolute rave about the Northern Albanian coast especially. Apparently it's still absolutely stunning.

[The Larch]

First things first, travelling in that area is rough. There are precious few train connections and roads are terrible. Bus should be your main means of transportation, and travelling that way takes plenty of time in that part of the world so don't plan to make loads of moving around. How long do you plan to stay?

[The Larch]

I have heard that there's some nice bits of the Montenegran coast left but that lots of it has been overdeveloped. However people I know absolute rave about the Northern Albanian coast especially. Apparently it's still absolutely stunning.

Most of the coast of Montenegro has suffered the blight of large scale resort development aimed at russian tourists, turning their coastal towns into garish nightmares for the discerning plutocrat. There is a particular town (Budva, I think) that every summer gets an influx of magnates and, on their tow, another influx of slavic gold digger girls. A friend of mine was there once and as soon as girls knew he was Western he was basically swimming in russian panties for the evening.

The coastal part still undeveloped is the southernmost, around Ulcinj, next to the Albanian border. It's gorgeous, apparently.

[Warspite]

What time of year are you going? That will heavily influence what I suggest you get up to.

[MadImmortalMan]

What kind of stuff are you interested in? I mean, just chilling on beaches? Castles and battlefields? Mountain climbing? On my list for next time is going to be the Soca Valley.

[The Brain]

The hardest part (if you're just a regular guy) is stealing the car in the West before you start the trip.

[Josquius]

There is a particular town (Budva, I think) that every summer gets an influx of magnates and, on their tow, another influx of slavic gold digger girls. A friend of mine was there once and as soon as girls knew he was Western he was basically swimming in russian panties for the evening.

Sold

What time of year are you going? That will heavily influence what I suggest you get up to.

Contemplating maybe March. Summer will be too hot and I want to do a bigger trip further afield then.

What kind of stuff are you interested in? I mean, just chilling on beaches? Castles and battlefields? Mountain climbing? On my list for next time is going to be the Soca Valley.

Castles, churches, other cool old buildings and ruins.
I don't do beach holidays. Though attractive coastlines are nice.

First things first, travelling in that area is rough. There are precious few train connections and roads are terrible. Bus should be your main means of transportation, and travelling that way takes plenty of time in that part of the world so don't plan to make loads of moving around. How long do you plan to stay?

The trains are rubbish?
Ah...there goes that idea...
Don't they have modern motorways? I won't be attempting mountain roads by car but sticking to the main roads seems it would be quicker than taking a bus,

[Sheilbh]

Don't they have modern motorways? I won't be attempting mountain roads by car but sticking to the main roads seems it would be quicker than taking a bus,

Maybe avoid Bosnia then

[Warspite]

Ok, March is not a time I would go but I'm someone who likes scorching hot sun by the sea.

The thing to remember is that the coast is heavily seasonal, so in early spring not much will be happening compared to June to early September. Dubrovnik might be a little quiet, for example. On the other hand, that does give the advantage of not having to jostle with the literally thousands of tourists who can be disgorged from the big cruise ships each day.

Driving is fine if you are confident on twisting mountain roads. The price of the spectacular scenery in Croatia and Bosnia for example is the heavily winding routes which make quick direct travel between destinations difficult. In Croatia the main motorway along the coast (which actually runs inland along the Dalmatian plateau) cut the journey time from Zagreb to Split to just a few hours when it used to take an entire day of driving on the old coastal road (the Magistrala) which while offering some of the most amazing views of your life could end in fury as you spent literally hours stuck behind a slow moving tractor on the two-lane road. But I should really say that the coach network is how most locals get around, and it's very easy to understand, there are lots of good routes, and most importantly it's quite cheap.

If you want castles, cool buildings, ruins etc, then I would suggest you start off in Split rather than Dubrovnik. Split's old town is a Roman ruin turned into a modern city. Split is Dalmatia's transport hub and so offers the best access to the island of Vis (only opened to the public after communism and the site of Yugoslavia's most important naval base) and the islands of Brac and Hvar, the latter having been an ancient Greek colony and Brac too has lots of old archaeological sites. Going inland from Split along the Cetina river you have lots of medieval fortresses designed to repel the Ottoman Turk, including the fortress of Prozor which overlooks my family's ancestral home.

From Split you can either head north to Zagreb (via Zadar and Karlovac, both historically significant towns). From Zagreb, you can visit Varazdin which is a fantastically well preserved baroque town (Google it. It's like a chocolate box picture). Then you can easily head over into Serbia and Belgrade along an actual motorway (much less driving time) that runs along the Pannonian plain. On the way, you can stop in Osijek (a beautiful town ruined by the war) and Vukovar (utterly devastated by the war and a huge Croatian national symbol).

In Split you can also catch a Hajduk Split game for about a tenner (if you did, I'd suggest you stick with the normal fans in the east or west stands) if you want to see poor quality Balkan domestic football. You can do the same in Belgrade but I don't know how the ultras are with foreigners, whereas I've taken my very English nephew to Hajduk games without problem.

Belgrade has a lot to see, including the military museum which is itself in an old citadel overlooking the city. The aviation museum by the airport is pretty cool too - they have a Predator drone and stealth fighter shot down in 1999. I don't know much about the rest of Serbia - it's never really been a tourist destination for me. If you are really keen you can head to Kosovo Polje in Kosovo to see the cradle of Serbotard nationalism, but it's really out of the way and all you'll really think is 'what the hell was all the fuss over?'

From Serbia you can very easily also head to Sarajevo where you should definitely check out the restored City Hall, the Latin Bridge (where Franz Ferdinand was shot), the museum of the siege and the national historical museum. Sarajevo is also a really fun place to just hang out - it has a great coffee culture.

I'd say Mostar is worth a visit to see the reconstructed bridge and also as a stopover - the hotel Kriva Cuprija is spectacular, I've stayed there several times while passing through Mostar. Mostar is worth a night in it because there are some amazing bars along the steep cliffs overlooking the river. Driving or taking the coach, the views you will get between Sarajevo and Mostar are simply breathtaking. You'll really understand how the partisans were able to operate.

You could also poke your nose into Medjugorje, where an apparition of the Virgin Mary supposedly revealed herself some years ago. The town has become a pilgrimage destination showing off the very best of Balkan kitsch which you should know is some of the tattiest in the world.

If you do decide to visit Split, Zagreb, Sarajevo or Mostar I can give you specific tips on which bars and restaurants and cafes to visit.

[The Larch]

First things first, travelling in that area is rough. There are precious few train connections and roads are terrible. Bus should be your main means of transportation, and travelling that way takes plenty of time in that part of the world so don't plan to make loads of moving around. How long do you plan to stay?

The trains are rubbish?
Ah...there goes that idea...
Don't they have modern motorways? I won't be attempting mountain roads by car but sticking to the main roads seems it would be quicker than taking a bus,

Dubrovnik doesn't even have a train connection to the rest of Croatia, trains in Dalmatia end at Split. As for motorways, Croatia has been building some in recent years, but again they don't arrive to Dubrovnik. That part of the country is very isolated from the rest. There's no train or motorway connection from Dubrovnik to Montenegro either, public transport there is all done by bus through smaller roads.

[mongers]

Ok, March is not a time I would go but I'm someone who likes scorching hot sun by the sea.

The thing to remember is that the coast is heavily seasonal, so in early spring not much will be happening compared to June to early September. Dubrovnik might be a little quiet, for example. On the other hand, that does give the advantage of not having to jostle with the literally thousands of tourists who can be disgorged from the big cruise ships each day.

Driving is fine if you are confident on twisting mountain roads. The price of the spectacular scenery in Croatia and Bosnia for example is the heavily winding routes which make quick direct travel between destinations difficult. In Croatia the main motorway along the coast (which actually runs inland along the Dalmatian plateau) cut the journey time from Zagreb to Split to just a few hours when it used to take an entire day of driving on the old coastal road (the Magistrala) which while offering some of the most amazing views of your life could end in fury as you spent literally hours stuck behind a slow moving tractor on the two-lane road. But I should really say that the coach network is how most locals get around, and it's very easy to understand, there are lots of good routes, and most importantly it's quite cheap.

If you want castles, cool buildings, ruins etc, then I would suggest you start off in Split rather than Dubrovnik. Split's old town is a Roman ruin turned into a modern city. Split is Dalmatia's transport hub and so offers the best access to the island of Vis (only opened to the public after communism and the site of Yugoslavia's most important naval base) and the islands of Brac and Hvar, the latter having been an ancient Greek colony and Brac too has lots of old archaeological sites. Going inland from Split along the Cetina river you have lots of medieval fortresses designed to repel the Ottoman Turk, including the fortress of Prozor which overlooks my family's ancestral home.

From Split you can either head north to Zagreb (via Zadar and Karlovac, both historically significant towns). From Zagreb, you can visit Varazdin which is a fantastically well preserved baroque town (Google it. It's like a chocolate box picture). Then you can easily head over into Serbia and Belgrade along an actual motorway (much less driving time) that runs along the Pannonian plain. On the way, you can stop in Osijek (a beautiful town ruined by the war) and Vukovar (utterly devastated by the war and a huge Croatian national symbol).

In Split you can also catch a Hajduk Split game for about a tenner (if you did, I'd suggest you stick with the normal fans in the east or west stands) if you want to see poor quality Balkan domestic football. You can do the same in Belgrade but I don't know how the ultras are with foreigners, whereas I've taken my very English nephew to Hajduk games without problem.

Belgrade has a lot to see, including the military museum which is itself in an old citadel overlooking the city. The aviation museum by the airport is pretty cool too - they have a Predator drone and stealth fighter shot down in 1999. I don't know much about the rest of Serbia - it's never really been a tourist destination for me. If you are really keen you can head to Kosovo Polje in Kosovo to see the cradle of Serbotard nationalism, but it's really out of the way and all you'll really think is 'what the hell was all the fuss over?'

From Serbia you can very easily also head to Sarajevo where you should definitely check out the restored City Hall, the Latin Bridge (where Franz Ferdinand was shot), the museum of the siege and the national historical museum. Sarajevo is also a really fun place to just hang out - it has a great coffee culture.

I'd say Mostar is worth a visit to see the reconstructed bridge and also as a stopover - the hotel Kriva Cuprija is spectacular, I've stayed there several times while passing through Mostar. Mostar is worth a night in it because there are some amazing bars along the steep cliffs overlooking the river. Driving or taking the coach, the views you will get between Sarajevo and Mostar are simply breathtaking. You'll really understand how the partisans were able to operate.

You could also poke your nose into Medjugorje, where an apparition of the Virgin Mary supposedly revealed herself some years ago. The town has become a pilgrimage destination showing off the very best of Balkan kitsch which you should know is some of the tattiest in the world.

If you do decide to visit Split, Zagreb, Sarajevo or Mostar I can give you specific tips on which bars and restaurants and cafes to visit.

You've sold that so well, now I want to visit.

Incidentally as talking with an old friend at the weekend and he was recalling hitch across communist Yugoslavia and Balkans soon after the generals came to power in Greece.

[Capetan Mihali]

I'd like to make a trip crossing the interior of the southern Balkans by land, from the Adriatic to the Black Sea: Tirana - Skopje - Sofia - Varna.

And also to do a "free city"/"international zone" trip, visiting Trieste, Danzig, Tangiers, any other important ones I'm forgetting...

[Josquius]

Thanks for the help.
More people have experience down there than I expected.

As said I don't think I'll be going to Belgrade on this trip. There's a direct easyjet flight to there so I'll do Belgrade some weekend as a little trip in its own right.
For this bigger trip I'm looking at the more out of the way muslimmy corner of the region.
I'm looking at March or so because I need a trip at the beginning of the year and I guess the weather will be at its best then. No crowds of stupid sun and booze tourists would be nice too...(though in summer I am looking at South East Asia so....ouch.)
Zagreb too has a direct flight so I'll probably do there and Slovenia in a small trip somewhere down the line too.

Driving...yeah. Its a problem for me. I have a license but I haven't drove regularly for 7 or 8 years. I drove a kei truck once a few years back and remembered how to do it surprisingly quickly- it being an automatic was more off putting than driving again-  but...I don't think I could throw myself right into a difficult drive.
Perhaps I'll get some practice before then. Do a road trip somewhere nearby.

What are prices like in the area? They're pretty heavily touristed these days so I'd guess not cheap-cheap? Comparable to Poland or...?

Anyone been to Albania/Kosovo?
They kind of fascinate me....but given the general shadiness of Albanians in western European cities....

[The Larch]

I would not recomend driving in the Balkans if you don't know the area and are not an experienced driver.