CIA Report

[CountDeMoney]

You're an international war criminal and an agent for a foreign country.  Go fuck yourself.

[KRonn]

I like Poland more now.

But Marti brought up a valid point earlier:  you know this stuff's going to make the US look ZOMG EVEN WORSER globally, but it also hangs our friends out to dry.  We can take this heat, but nations full of Martis and Jacobs may not be able to.

It does hang out other nations, which makes intel cooperation much harder now even though the torture procedures are no longer used, as defined by new US laws a while back. This has been known for a while and the laws were  put in place by Congress to address these issues. This report seems to me to do little good except to re-inflame things that were already known and addressed. Dems and Repubs Congressmembers on certain intel committees knew about this stuff, most of it, and were being briefed. One claim is that they weren't briefed on everything which may be true. But for some they try to say they weren't in briefings or whatever, or try to dis-associate themselves, is disingenuous at best.

These torture techniques and rendition to other nations with more lax laws are no longer done. I can understand why it happened in the aftermath of 9/11 and the beginning of the anti-terror war, but IMO it went too far when I read some of this stuff, and I felt that way long before this report came out. Not the panties and such which are ridiculous to claim as torture, but some of the other stuff which were much worse.

[Capetan Mihali]

The big question is, does it work or not?
As a proud practicioner of Tactical Questioning, different from enhanced interrogation techniques, I effing guaranty you it does work, however you have to be trained to separate valuable tactical information from resistance misinformation.

I think, as in the article Sheilbh bolded, torturing people even after you've decided they have no useful information is a technique that definitely works.  Maybe not for national security purposes, but certainly for building morale among the torturers. 

[DGuller]

Did they get the full briefing, or the PG-13 version that many politicians were getting?

I wasn't aware of any PG13 version.  I thought the people I mentioned were the only ones briefed at all.

One of the findings is that CIA was not telling the whole truth to the politicians overseeing it.  At least some of them.

[Admiral Yi]

One of the findings is that CIA was not telling the whole truth to the politicians overseeing it.  At least some of them.

Do you have a link?  I was unaware of this, as I said.

[DontSayBanana]

Yes.
Now the objection is why not just not do the bad stuff in first place.  But power corrupts.  We still haven't figured out the durable solution to that.

Indeed.  The bleating about "publishing this info puts people at risk" is especially amusing.  If the bad shit hadn't been deliberately, and illegally, done, then there wouldn't be a report.  This should be one of those "never again" moments, and instead the villains are blaming the cops, and they appear to be getting away with it... or would be, except McCain keeps refusing to side with the criminals, and so exposes the hypocrisy of those who are.  Stay the course, John.

Dick Cheney Was Lying About Torture
The Senate report confirms it doesn't work. As those of us on the inside knew.
By MARK FALLON
POLITICO

December 08, 2014

It's official: torture doesn't work. Waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, did not in fact "produce the intelligence that allowed us to get Osama bin Laden," as former Vice President Dick Cheney asserted in 2011. Those are among the central findings of the Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA interrogation and detention after 9/11.

The report's executive summary is expected to be released Tuesday. After reviewing thousands of the CIA's own documents, the committee has concluded that torture was ineffective as an intelligence-gathering technique. Torture produced little information of value, and what little it did produce could've been gained through humane, legal methods that uphold American ideals.

I had long since come to that conclusion myself. As special agent in charge of the criminal investigation task force with investigators and intelligence personnel at Guantanamo Bay, Afghanistan, and Iraq, I was privy to the information provided by Khalid Sheik Mohammed. I was aware of no valuable information that came from waterboarding. And the Senate Intelligence Committee—which had access to all CIA documents related to the "enhanced interrogation" program—has concluded that abusive techniques didn't help the hunt for Bin Laden. Cheney's claim that the frequent waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed "produced phenomenal results for us" is simply false.

The self-defeating stupidity of torture might come as news to Americans who've heard again and again from Cheney and other political leaders that torture "worked." Professional interrogators, however, couldn't be less surprised. We know that legal, rapport-building interrogation techniques are the best way to obtain intelligence, and that torture tends to solicit unreliable information that sets back investigations.

Yes, torture makes people talk—but what they say is often untrue. Seeking to stop the pain, people subjected to torture tend to say what they believe their interrogators want to hear.

The report is essential because it makes clear the legal, moral, and strategic costs of torture. President Obama and congressional leaders should use this opportunity to push for legislation that solidifies the ban on torture and cruel treatment. While current law prohibits these acts, US officials employed strained legal arguments to authorize abuse.

A law could take various forms: a codification of the president's 2009 executive order banning torture, for example, or an expansion of the 2005 Detainee Treatment Act so that key protections in it would apply to the CIA as well as the military. However it's designed, a new law would help the country stay true to its ideals during times of crisis and guard against a return to the "dark side."

And dark it was. Terms like "waterboarding" and "enhanced interrogation" obscure the brutal, sometimes bloody, reality. It was about the delivery of pain. The U.S. government authorized previously taboo techniques, which—along with a take-the-gloves-off message coming from the top—led to even greater horrors. You can draw a line from the "enhanced interrogation" to the barbarism of Abu Ghraib.

The ostensible purpose of torture was to save lives, but it has had the exact opposite effect. Torture was a PR bonanza for enemies of the United States. It enabled—and, in fact, is still enabling—al Qaeda and its allies to attract more fighters, more sympathizers, and more money.

Some have argued against releasing the report because they predict that it will spark anti-American anger around the world. Such a possibility, however, is an argument not against the kind of transparency and Congressional oversight inherent to a well-functioning democracy; it's an argument against torture. Indeed, by employing such an argument, people are implicitly acknowledging that torture saps the country's credibility and threatens its national security.

Over the coming days, you'll be hearing numerous torture defenders claim it kept Americans safe. Don't believe them. Many of us charged with the mission of getting information out of terrorists didn't resort to using torture. Like many Americans, we didn't want our government to use torture, and we hope it never does again.                                                                                     

Mark Fallon served as an interrogator for more than 30 years, including as a Naval Criminal Investigative Service special agent and within the Department of Homeland Security, as the assistant director for training of the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center

Does anybody doubt at this point that Cheney is basically a pathological liar?  This guy doesn't just obfuscate- at this point, we should be able to have him lie down and use his nose as a space elevator.

[DontSayBanana]

One of the findings is that CIA was not telling the whole truth to the politicians overseeing it.  At least some of them.

That the EIT program happened at all is a tragedy, but something about this smells really fishy- Justice investigated, not once, but twice before coming to the conclusion that nobody could be prosecuted for these.  So you can falsify reports to Congress without repercussion?  Or is this one of those cases where the statute of limitations is way too short?

[CountDeMoney]

Does anybody doubt at this point that Cheney is basically a pathological liar?  This guy doesn't just obfuscate- at this point, we should be able to have him lie down and use his nose as a space elevator.

It would be nice to see him get charged, but that would never happen.

[derspiess]

You're an international war criminal and an agent for a foreign country.  Go fuck yourself.

Harsh.

[Sheilbh]

One of the findings is that CIA was not telling the whole truth to the politicians overseeing it.  At least some of them.

Do you have a link?  I was unaware of this, as I said.

CIA Misled Bush, Congress on Interrogation Tactics, Report Finds
By Chris Strohm  Dec 9, 2014 6:17 PM GMT  162 Comments  Email  Print

The CIA misled Congress and kept former President George W. Bush in the dark as it conducted interrogations of terror suspects that were far more brutal and less effective than publicly portrayed, according to a report by Democrats on the Senate intelligence committee.

The harsh interrogations weren't effective and didn't produce key information that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden, contrary to claims by program supporters. Policy makers deceived by the CIA included Bush, who based a 2008 speech on inaccurate information that interrogations helped thwart terrorist plots, according to a summary of the 6,000-page report released today in Washington.

"History will judge us by our commitment to a just society governed by laws and the willingness to face an ugly truth and say, 'never again,'" said Senator Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat and the panel's chairman. In a statement, she said CIA treatment of some detainees amounted to torture.

At least 26 detainees didn't meet the standards for being held, according to the report. In the fall of 2002, a detainee died of hypothermia while shackled to a concrete floor. Another detainee was held for 17 days in the dark without anybody knowing he was there.

One detainee was left handcuffed by his wrists to an overhead bar for 22 hours over two consecutive days, the report said. At least five CIA detainees were subjected to what the report called "rectal rehydration" or rectal feeding without medical necessity.

$40 Million

The final report, which cost $40 million and took six years to complete, is the most comprehensive assessment of the CIA's so-called black site detention facilities and "enhanced interrogation techniques" on at least 119 terrorism suspects following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The report's release has renewed debate about the Central Intelligence Agency's tactics and prompted warnings of possible reprisals against Americans or U.S. facilities abroad. President Barack Obama ordered a stop to the program when he took office in 2009 and supported the report's release.

Obama said today that the contents of the report show that the enhanced interrogation techniques are counterproductive to larger national security goals.

"The report documents a troubling program," Obama said in a written statement. "It reinforces my long-held view that these harsh methods were not only inconsistent with our values as nation, they did not serve our broader counterterrorism efforts or our national security interests."

'Thwart Attacks'

CIA Director John Brennan said today the program had "shortcomings" and that the agency made mistakes in the rush to gather intelligence after Sept. 11. But he disputed that interrogations didn't produce useful information or that the agency intentionally misled Congress or the White House.

The CIA's efforts "helped thwart attack plans, capture terrorists, and save lives," Brennan said in a statement. He said the report lacked "valuable context" because committee staff didn't interview the CIA officers involved.

Contrary to claims by the agency, the brutal methods didn't lead U.S. officials to the identity of bin Laden's courier, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, a finding that helped uncover the al-Qaeda leader's location, according to the report.

The interrogation of terrorism suspect Abu Zubaydah, who was waterboarded at least 83 times, was more brutal than previously known. At one point, he was put in a 1 1/2 meter box and was knocked unconscious during a waterboarding session during which water and bubbles poured from his mouth, according to the summary. Other detainees with broken legs and feet were inappropriately forced to sit in stress positions.

20 Cases

The committee reviewed 20 of the most frequent and prominent examples of interrogation cases that the CIA claimed produced valuable information. None of the cases showed that information was obtained that saved lives or that couldn't have been gleaned from other means, according to the findings.

Instead, the panel found that the CIA used interrogation techniques that differed significantly from those authorized by the Department of Justice and described to U.S. policy makers and lawmakers, according to the summary.

CIA and Justice Department officials discussed ways to get around the criminal prohibition on torture, the report said. According to a CIA cable, Justice officials said the law would not apply because of the absence of any specific intent to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering.

Misleading and inaccurate information was provided to Bush that interrogations helped thwart terrorist plots, such as flying passenger planes into the Liberty Tower in Los Angeles and an airport and buildings in London, the report said. Bush used that information for a 2008 speech.

Bush, Cheney

"The statement reflected inaccurate information provided by the CIA to the president and other policymakers in CIA briefings," the report states.

Bush and the full Senate intelligence committee weren't briefed on the techniques until 2006. Some members, including Feinstein and Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican, raised objections. However, the CIA then turned around and informed the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel in a classified setting that no senators had objected.

The panel learned that former Vice President Dick Cheney was in meetings where the tactics were discussed.

Democrats on the Senate intelligence committee released the findings over the objections of current and former U.S. officials including Bush and warnings that Americans would face retaliation overseas.

Diplomatic Lapses

"I don't believe that any other nation would go to the lengths the United States does to bare its soul, admit mistakes when they are made and learn from those mistakes," Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper said in a message to intelligence community workers. "Certainly, no one can imagine such an effort by any of the adversaries we face today."

The CIA blocked State Department leaders from access to information "crucial to foreign policy decision-making and diplomatic activities," the report said. Two secretaries of state weren't told about the locations of CIA detention facilities, despite the diplomatic implications.

"In two countries, U.S. ambassadors were informed of plans to establish a CIA detention site in the countries where they were serving after the CIA had already entered into agreements with the countries to host the detention sites," it said.

Secretary of State John Kerry supports releasing the findings, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters yesterday. Kerry discussed the implications of the release in a phone call with Feinstein and said it was up to her to decide when to do so, Psaki said.

Rubio, Risch

Republicans and former Bush administration officials who ran the program condemned the report in advance as a biased attempt to rewrite history. They say the interrogations produced significant intelligence that helped capture terrorists and protect the country.

"There's no reason to have released this report except for the pure partisan joy of embarrassing the Bush administration," Republican Senator Marco Rubio of Florida told reporters today.

Rubio and Jim Risch of Idaho, both members of the committee, criticized the report yesterday as "one-sided" and faulted Democrats on the panel for releasing it.

Releasing the findings will give terrorists fresh ammunition to escalate their violence and put the lives of additional U.S. officials and allies at risk, said Representative Mike Rogers, a Michigan Republican and chairman of the House intelligence committee.

'Torture's Wrong'

"All they've got to do is find something they think indicates something and they'll use it for their propaganda machine," Rogers said yesterday at a meeting of Bloomberg Government reporters and editors. "Why are we going to risk the lives of some diplomat, for what?"

Senate Democrats fired back against such warnings.

"The implications of this report are profound –- not only is torture wrong, but it doesn't work," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, of Nevada, said on the Senate floor today. "The only way our country can put this episode in the past is to come to terms with what happened and commit to ensuring it will never happen again."

The eight Democratic members of the intelligence committee, as well as Michigan Democrat Carl Levin, an ex officio member as chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, wrote Clapper to "memorialize" what they said is his support for releasing the report in a Dec. 6 phone call with them, according to a U.S. official who's read the letter.

Potential Damage

"There will never be an 'elegant' time to release this study, as it describes in stark detail the detention and interrogation actions of the CIA," the letter said, according to the U.S. official. "As such, you believe it is better to release the report now so that the intelligence community can begin to move past this chapter of its history."

Some Democrats and human-rights activists have hailed the report for finally exposing flaws and possible crimes in the CIA's rendition, detention and interrogation program, which largely operated from 2002 to 2005.

White House officials this morning briefed former intelligence and counterterrorism officials who are prepared to defend the report's release on television and elsewhere.

U.S. officials are bracing for international blowback that could fuel riots and retaliation in countries hostile to the U.S. The Defense Department warned U.S. commands overseas on Dec. 5 to take appropriate force protection measures in anticipation of the findings release, and the State Department and U.S. intelligence agencies have directed overseas posts and personnel to review and in some cases bolster their security.

The report appears to be "way off-base," Bush said in an interview Dec. 7 on CNN's "State of the Union."

"We're fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the CIA serving on our behalf," Bush said. "These are patriots. And whatever the report says, if it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is way off base." Others who are part of the campaign include Bush's former CIA directors George Tenet and Michael Hayden.

To contact the reporter on this story: Chris Strohm in Washington at [email protected]

To contact the editors responsible for this story: John Walcott at [email protected]; Jon Morgan at [email protected] Elizabeth Wasserman, Michael Shepard

Edit: Incidentally as has been the case throughout, McCain comes out of this very well.

[DontSayBanana]

Incidentally as has been the case throughout, McCain comes out of this very well.

Losing the presidential election has done wonders for this guy- since losing, he's gone back to choosing his positions based on what he perceives to be the moral high ground rather than the party platform.  Occasionally, he drops an oddball head-scratcher, but overall, he seems to realize he's in a good position to not have to worry too much about playing politics anymore.  If Arizona had a few more like him, it might not be the national embarrassment that it currently is.

[Sheilbh]

He's been right on torture throughout, I mean the law on detainee treatment was very important. It's an issue he's been entirely consistent on, as in that article when he expressed opposition in 2006 when briefed.

[Martinus]

I would pay good money to hear what he privately thinks of Sarah Palin. I don't think it is a very high opinion, though.

[Sheilbh]

I would pay good money to hear what he privately thinks of Sarah Palin. I don't think it is a very high opinion, though.

'Palin? That fu-Censored for content.'

[Monoriu]

It seems to me that the US hurt itself for basically nothing.