Sunday NY Times piece on British Snobbery, for all you little plebs and gits

[Syt]

Oh, good point, overlooked that.

[Sheilbh]

OK, so straight out of Central Casting, London Branch Office.

Yep. And the MP who posted the tweet:

[Ideologue]

Not disagreeing that race isn't the bigger issue in the American national psyche, but I'm not sure "little traction" is an accurate description re: class warfare. Terms like "poors," "rednecks," "white trash"; the obsessions with Ivy League and where you went to college, single mothers, welfare; and a whole bunch of the cultural markers associated with what music you listen to, what car you drive, or what neighbourhood you reside in all makes Americans seem pretty invested in class.

It's certainly all about class, but we still revere the Self-Made Man Who Grabbed The American Dream By The Hair And Did Her Doggie Style.  If you don't make it, it's simply because you didn't try hard enough.  Johnny Rube still believes in that 19th century bullshit, refusing to believe the deck is already stacked.  Unfortunately, you have politicians who'll tell them it's the fault of the blacks, the Hispanics, etc., and not the 1%ers that are the true cockblockers.

So it's really no different than the UK, where the deck is also stacked but it's fault of the immigrants this time.

Yeah, but that one's true.

[grumbler]

Not disagreeing that race isn't the bigger issue in the American national psyche, but I'm not sure "little traction" is an accurate description re: class warfare. Terms like "poors," "rednecks," "white trash"; the obsessions with Ivy League and where you went to college, single mothers, welfare; and a whole bunch of the cultural markers associated with what music you listen to, what car you drive, or what neighbourhood you reside in all makes Americans seem pretty invested in class.

Glad I don't live in that America!  Where in America did you live to encounter such things, Jacob?

[garbon]

Not disagreeing that race isn't the bigger issue in the American national psyche, but I'm not sure "little traction" is an accurate description re: class warfare. Terms like "poors," "rednecks," "white trash"; the obsessions with Ivy League and where you went to college, single mothers, welfare; and a whole bunch of the cultural markers associated with what music you listen to, what car you drive, or what neighbourhood you reside in all makes Americans seem pretty invested in class.

Glad I don't live in that America!  Where in America did you live to encounter such things, Jacob?

Yeah maybe from an outsider looking in, but I wouldn't say that most people I know care much about any of those "cultural markers."

[Malthus]

OK, so straight out of Central Casting, London Branch Office.

Yep. And the MP who posted the tweet:

She has a bit of that good old English "Jabba the Hut" face happening. 

[Ideologue]

Not disagreeing that race isn't the bigger issue in the American national psyche, but I'm not sure "little traction" is an accurate description re: class warfare. Terms like "poors," "rednecks," "white trash"; the obsessions with Ivy League and where you went to college, single mothers, welfare; and a whole bunch of the cultural markers associated with what music you listen to, what car you drive, or what neighbourhood you reside in all makes Americans seem pretty invested in class.

Glad I don't live in that America!  Where in America did you live to encounter such things, Jacob?

Yeah maybe from an outsider looking in, but I wouldn't say that most people I know care much about any of those "cultural markers."

Yeah, sure they don't.

Maybe not the music thing, so much.

Car: absolutely.
Neighborhood: also true.
College: c'mon.  Get real.  Of course they do.

[garbon]

Car: absolutely.

Maybe among suburban housewives. Or maybe people were secretly judging me on my car choice but didn't tell me.

Neighborhood: also true.

I mean while most places have good / bad parts of town, I don't know that most people look negatively upon someone who is from a bad place. Particularly not so when they are you co-workers.

College: c'mon.  Get real.  Of course they do.

No. Apart from perhaps the college sport enthusiast, I don't think this matters much. I suppose there is a divide between elite school and not, but that's probably it.

[Malthus]

Not disagreeing that race isn't the bigger issue in the American national psyche, but I'm not sure "little traction" is an accurate description re: class warfare. Terms like "poors," "rednecks," "white trash"; the obsessions with Ivy League and where you went to college, single mothers, welfare; and a whole bunch of the cultural markers associated with what music you listen to, what car you drive, or what neighbourhood you reside in all makes Americans seem pretty invested in class.

Glad I don't live in that America!  Where in America did you live to encounter such things, Jacob?

Yeah maybe from an outsider looking in, but I wouldn't say that most people I know care much about any of those "cultural markers."

Why, none of use even know you went to Stamford. 

[The Brain]

Harald "garbon" Hardrada?

[Jacob]

Yeah, sure they don't.

Maybe not the music thing, so much.

Car: absolutely.
Neighborhood: also true.
College: c'mon.  Get real.  Of course they do.

People don't make assumptions about the political values, backgrounds, level of education etc of people who listen to, say, "New Country", who are really into obscure bands you've never heard about, or who are self-identified juggalos?

I mean, I'm not suggesting that every single music style corresponds to a clearly defined class on a one-to-one basis. Perhaps I should have expressed it in slightly broader terms - that media consumption patterns are a class marker. And yeah, there's a whole bunch of stuff that just ends up as fairly undifferentiated "middle class", "mass consumption" type stuff (which in itself means something if that's all you consume), but once you get outside of that then I think there are class markers in play.

So, I absolutely think that people make assumptions about other people based on their media consumption, and that those assumptions feed into a larger set of markers that make up class in North America.

[Jacob]

Yeah maybe from an outsider looking in, but I wouldn't say that most people I know care much about any of those "cultural markers."

That's funny, because the way you post you come across as one of the American posters most concerned about class.

Do you spend a fair bit of time of your time around people who are not comfortable, well educated, and cosmopolitan? Discounting, of course, times where it's unavoidable?

[garbon]

Not disagreeing that race isn't the bigger issue in the American national psyche, but I'm not sure "little traction" is an accurate description re: class warfare. Terms like "poors," "rednecks," "white trash"; the obsessions with Ivy League and where you went to college, single mothers, welfare; and a whole bunch of the cultural markers associated with what music you listen to, what car you drive, or what neighbourhood you reside in all makes Americans seem pretty invested in class.

Glad I don't live in that America!  Where in America did you live to encounter such things, Jacob?

Yeah maybe from an outsider looking in, but I wouldn't say that most people I know care much about any of those "cultural markers."

Why, none of use even know you went to Stamford. 

Definitely isn't something I note on a general basis. I'm more likely to say "Oh I went to school in California" if pressed "Oh in the bay area. Just a small liberal arts college." When pressed to reveal "Oh but really it isn't that hard to get in. I mean I never thought I was going to get in but just like smart people from California went there so I had to apply."

[garbon]

Yeah maybe from an outsider looking in, but I wouldn't say that most people I know care much about any of those "cultural markers."

That's funny, because the way you post you come across as one of the American posters most concerned about class.

Do you spend a fair bit of time of your time around people who are not comfortable, well educated, and cosmopolitan? Discounting, of course, times where it's unavoidable?

Well it is fun to play up on here - and while I will say that for a partner, I do think differences in money/background can cause a lot of problems, I don't care about those things in daily living.

I'd say it is a toss up. For sure, very few people I deal with have the same academic level. People I socialize with come from a variety of socio-economic background. I mean I guess most of them have managed to land office work, so they mostly have been to college of some sort but that isn't true for many of the people in my extended family that I am very close with - nor most of the people that I've dated for any meaningful period of time.

Of course, it is hard to take your question seriously given that I could hear you sneering as you asked that rhetorical one.

[garbon]

Note, J, I suppose it is true (outside of family) that I don't have many friends who are broke and can't afford to do anything ever - but that wouldn't be a function of looking down on them but more that it would be hard to go about doing things as a great many cost money.