The most badass person in the world? I submit: Alex Honnold

[Barrister]

Yeah, I'm fine with not considering people into extreme sports stupid. They value the adrenaline kick and other types of satisfaction higher than the risk (which they minimize as much as possible within their chosen parameters). It's a hobby or a way to make a living that I wouldn't chose, but it's not stupid.

I wouldn't call them badass, though, at least not on the strength of their extreme sport activity. I've been trying to figure out how to articulate it and ultimately I think a badass is someone who has a proven record of overcoming unexpected physical and psychological adversity; it's someone who you'd like to have on your side when the shit hits the fan because even if they haven't dealt with this particular type of situation, they've been through stuff like it and beaten the odds.

Climbing rocks for kicks, no matter how challenging, does not make you a badass. It may be that Mr. Honnold is a badass, and the rock climbing is part of what made him that way, but the ability to climb stuff is not enough to be a badass IMO.

I think in that case I'd go with Ernest Shackleton.

There must be people living to day who beat his achievement of getting to South Georgia and rescuing all of his crew, but I haven't heard of them. Though I guess things like GPS and instant comms flip the scales in favour of the modern adventurer.

Ernest Shackleton may indeed be history's greatest badass.

Though for an almost equalled performance in open-boat sailing is the one and only Captain William Bligh, of HMS Bounty-infamy.

[Caliga]

It's too bad he fought for the wrong side, because von Lettow-Vorbeck was probably one of history's greatest badasses also.

[alfred russel]

It's too bad he fought for the wrong side, because von Lettow-Vorbeck was probably one of history's greatest badasses also.

I'd say the same thing about Cortes and Pizzarro.

[Jacob]

Yeah, I'm fine with not considering people into extreme sports stupid. They value the adrenaline kick and other types of satisfaction higher than the risk (which they minimize as much as possible within their chosen parameters). It's a hobby or a way to make a living that I wouldn't chose, but it's not stupid.

I wouldn't call them badass, though, at least not on the strength of their extreme sport activity. I've been trying to figure out how to articulate it and ultimately I think a badass is someone who has a proven record of overcoming unexpected physical and psychological adversity; it's someone who you'd like to have on your side when the shit hits the fan because even if they haven't dealt with this particular type of situation, they've been through stuff like it and beaten the odds.

Climbing rocks for kicks, no matter how challenging, does not make you a badass. It may be that Mr. Honnold is a badass, and the rock climbing is part of what made him that way, but the ability to climb stuff is not enough to be a badass IMO.

Rock climbing is, basically by definition, pointless. One could compare that to many other activities, like video games.

What he demonstrates, to a remarkable degree:
-endurance, mental and physical
-physical strength
-physical courage
-perseverance
-dedication

To a lesser degree, some measure of intelligence.

You mentioned responding to adversity: forgetting the things on film, I am sure there are many times in his life he pushed himself maybe a bit too far, or things weren't quite going the way he wanted, and he had to respond.

None of that means he is a good person. And maybe we want to define being a badass in a way that incorporates that, such as stepping in to be a father to your nephews because their parents are drug addicts. But I was thinking more along the lines of a morally neutral superhero type badass.

In spite of spicy's little funny, I don't think being a father to your nephews et. al. is badass. When I think of a quintessential badass, I think of that Gurkha who killed twenty robbers on a train, while he was armed only with a knife.

Thinking more about it, I think violence has to be involved for someone to be a real badass.

[alfred russel]

It is interesting to compare accomplishments across history. Cross comparison of accomplishments across eras is tricky.

Take the north face of the Eiger:

In 1935, a team made the first serious attempt at it. Everyone died.

A couple more teams made attempts after that, with everyone dying. The Swiss for a time banned anyone from trying.

In 1938, a German / Austrian team succeeded in 4 days, with lots of close calls. The story is that one climber had a nazi flag to plant on the summit, but they were so beat up by the climb they never got the pictures and just climbed down asap. It was considered an epic accomplishment.

In the 1970s, Messner climbed it in 10 hours, which was considered unbelievable.

A few years ago, Steck climbed it in 2:47. That record stood for 3-4 years before it was beat by a guy who did it in 2:28.

[Caliga]

I think I agree re: violence, but I think I still agree on Shackleton being one of history's greatest badasses because nature can be pretty fucking violent, and certainly was in his case.

[alfred russel]

When I think of a quintessential badass, I think of that Gurkha who killed twenty robbers on a train, while he was armed only with a knife.

Thinking more about it, I think violence has to be involved for someone to be a real badass.

Are boxers badass?

The problem is that it is hard to establish yourself as badass if you have to be violent in a socially positive manner. Short of Alex Honnold flying to India and riding trains with attractive females, I'm not sure what he can do to establish his badassness, and even then it might be hours or even days before someone makes a move.

[MadImmortalMan]

Thinking more about it, I think violence has to be involved for someone to be a real badass.

Not violence specifically, but risk-taking.

[Jacob]

Are boxers badass?

They can be.

The problem is that it is hard to establish yourself as badass if you have to be violent in a socially positive manner. Short of Alex Honnold flying to India and riding trains with attractive females, I'm not sure what he can do to establish his badassness, and even then it might be hours or even days before someone makes a move.

It's not a problem for me, because I don't think badass needs to be defined so that there are easy venues for establishing that you are one.

Looking at Shackleton, if we say that violence is not the only or exlusive criterion, I think coolness in the face of overwhelming disaster is another key factor. So picking these difficult climbs and filming them is not badass. But if he somehow found himself in a situation where he had to do a super difficult climb with no preparation to save his life (or he risks his life to reach some other necessary objective) then he'd be a badass in the Shackleton vein.

Like, say, if his plane crashes at the bottom of some cliff and the only way to avoid death by starvation and get help is to climb up the cliff, then he's a badass for pulling off that climb.

So yeah... maybe being a badass is facing an unexpected and unsought out danger, and dealing with it successfully through grit and skill.... though I don't know, because I think some guy who goes out and get in fights all the time is a badass (psycho as he may be), more so than a boxer who only fights in the ring. Miyamoto Musashi, for example, was a badass.

[Jacob]

Thinking more about it, I think violence has to be involved for someone to be a real badass.

Not violence specifically, but risk-taking.

I'm trying to figure it out, because while I agree that it isn't just about violence (Shackleton was pretty badass), I don't think rock-climbing or bungee jumping or 100' wave surfing or base jumping etc are badass, even if it's very much about the risk-taking.

[lustindarkness]

In my mind a true badass gets The Medal of Honor, many times posthumously for said action that earned them the medal.

[crazy canuck]

That guy is an incredible athlete.  But it is a solo test.  Being "badass" implies a competition with/against others.  He may be a "badass" but we dont know yet.  He may actually be a very meek and mild person when confronted with social competition.

Also, I don't think being a badass necessarily means a resolution through violence.  I think the true Badasses get their way through sheer force of personality.

Having said that I think my Grandfather was a signficant badass for having killed a bear with a small sapling he pulled out of the ground when the bear wouldnt leave his camp way back in the day.  As he explained it - bullets were expensive and the bear wasnt that big. 

[alfred russel]

I'm trying to figure it out, because while I agree that it isn't just about violence (Shackleton was pretty badass), I don't think rock-climbing or bungee jumping or 100' wave surfing or base jumping etc are badass, even if it's very much about the risk-taking.

To personalize this a bit, I've hired some certified international mountain guides. These guys are insanely fit, risk takers, etc. But also skilled to an unbelievable degree--getting certified is something like a 5 year process. All the guides do is take dumbass clients up and down really big and dangerous peaks. One of the guides I had had spent a couple years as a mountaineering guide in Anarctica. Another guide, after we summitted a 4,000m peak, decided that wasn't enough exercise for the day and went on a 3 hour run in the mountains.

On Mont Blanc, we got up at 1 am to start climbing. Earlier that night, there was a distress call--people were in trouble higher up. The guides from our group formed a rescue party--which was successful--but it meant they got no sleep that night. When we made the ascent, a client needed to turn back, and the guides basically had a big argument about who should go down with him--all of them wanted to go to the summit. The guide that ended up taking him down, despite having been up the mountain like 50 times and not sleeping that night before, decided to summit by himself after getting the client to safety. He never said why he did that--I think he had the attitude, "I set out to climb this mountain, and even if my client can't make it, nothing is going to keep me from doing it."

I think those guys should be considered badass. A guy like Alex Honnold is basically those guys--only more hardcore. If the guides are badass, then he has to be as well.

[The Brain]

Charles XII was badass. Hell he was even Badass of the Week.

[Barrister]

As I think about it, if you want a badass climber I give you - Stanley Waters.

In WWII he was a member of the "Devil's Brigade" - an American-Canadian special forces commando unit.  A company under his command used climbing ropes to climb the cliffs of Monte La Difense at near Montecassino.  He was involved in some heroics at Anzio for which he received a Silver Star.  My recollection was also (but I can't find confirmation) was that he was the first allied soldier in Rome.

After the war he stayed in the Canadian Army, eventually reaching the rank of Lt General and becoming commander of Mobile Command.

And upon retirement, because he hadn't done enough in his life yet, he became Canada's first elected senator.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=RAtfybsdp4sC&lpg=PA237&ots=81VW4mMuaF&dq=gen.%20stan%20waters%20anzio&pg=PA237#v=onepage&q=gen.%20stan%20waters%20anzio&f=false

Of course WWII generated tons of "badasses", so it'd be hard to say Stan Waters was the biggest of them all, but his name deserves to be in the discussion.

And of course for climbing bad-assedness, climbing cliffs in order to fight the nazis beats anything else.