The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels

[crazy canuck]

Add to that cost of project/construction delays because of protests and potential opposition from various levels of government and not building become even less attractive.

Costs of protests?  Really?

Costs of delays caused by protests.

Yes, really.

As just one example (in another energy sector).  This protest may result in Kinder Morgan missing a regulatory deadline for submitting a revised report to the regulator which will result in further delay and cost.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/protesters-arrested-at-burnaby-mountain-anti-pipeline-demonstration/article21668755/

[CountDeMoney]

The same argument can be made about our refinery capacity, which hasn't seen a single refinery capable of 6 digit barrel capacity in United States come online since the early 1970s.  Imagine what the fuel costs would be if we didn't have to ship it overseas and back.  It costs investment money to make long term money.  But no, energy politics has been translated out of the national security discussion, because national security does not translate into shareholder value.  The GOP barks about energy independence, but like so much other Big Business Bullshit they spout, it's just that: bullshit.

So there have been refineries built, just not ones that meet some arbitrary standard, and so they are ignored?  What fuel gets shipped overseas and then returned?  What percentage of the costs of fuel in the US come from the costs of shipping fuel overseas and then back again?

Or is this just bullshit rhetoric, and the US has, in fact, plenty of refinery capacity and so hasn't needed to build any new ones except for boutique products?

Expansion of existing facilities or little hole-in-the-wall operations wasn't what I was aiming at, but that the same claim can be made about refineries that CC is making about nukes (that start up costs are prohibitive as an excuse not to build them) is bullshit.

But I'm not even talking to you, so go ply your Jedi PickAFight Mind Tricks with someone else.

[CountDeMoney]

Costs of delays caused by protests.

Yes, really.

As just one example (in another energy sector).  This protest may result in Kinder Morgan missing a regulatory deadline for submitting a revised report to the regulator which will result in further delay and cost.

That's in Canada, a foreign country.  People here haven't handcuffed themselves to shit in protest of construction in the energy sector since California in the '70s, and most of those hippies are Baby Boomer sellout shareholders by now anyway.

Stop trying to introduce alien Weenie concepts from foreign lands into the exceptionalism of America, dammit.  Green is just a lawn color here.

[mongers]

Costs of delays caused by protests.

Yes, really.

As just one example (in another energy sector).  This protest may result in Kinder Morgan missing a regulatory deadline for submitting a revised report to the regulator which will result in further delay and cost.

That's in Canada, a foreign country.  People here haven't handcuffed themselves to shit in protest of construction in the energy sector since California in the '70s, and most of those hippies are Baby Boomer sellout shareholders by now anyway.

Stop trying to introduce alien Weenie concepts from foreign lands into the exceptionalism of America, dammit.  Green is just a lawn color here.

I'll not be easy to avoid using that line, but don't worry I'll credit you. 

[crazy canuck]

 

[Malthus]

Costs of delays caused by protests.

Yes, really.

As just one example (in another energy sector).  This protest may result in Kinder Morgan missing a regulatory deadline for submitting a revised report to the regulator which will result in further delay and cost.

That's in Canada, a foreign country.  People here haven't handcuffed themselves to shit in protest of construction in the energy sector since California in the '70s, and most of those hippies are Baby Boomer sellout shareholders by now anyway.

Stop trying to introduce alien Weenie concepts from foreign lands into the exceptionalism of America, dammit.  Green is just a lawn color here.

And guess what? That color is a petroleum by-product!

http://www.lawnlift.com/

[The Minsky Moment]

Do you know if the solar and wind figures incorporate the necessary backup fossil fuel generation?

Haven't read whole thread; sorry if already covered.

I don't think so, but that is not unique to solar/wind.  Because demand is variable there is often a need for "peaker" plants even if you are using gas or oil or coal.  One nice thing about solar, especially as you go South, is that there is good correlation between summertime generation and demand.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't think so, but that is not unique to solar/wind.  Because demand is variable there is often a need for "peaker" plants even if you are using gas or oil or coal.  One nice thing about solar, especially as you go South, is that there is good correlation between summertime generation and demand.

I wasn't thinking so much of peak demand as I was about no sun and no wind.

[Ed Anger]

Costs of delays caused by protests.

Yes, really.

As just one example (in another energy sector).  This protest may result in Kinder Morgan missing a regulatory deadline for submitting a revised report to the regulator which will result in further delay and cost.

That's in Canada, a foreign country.  People here haven't handcuffed themselves to shit in protest of construction in the energy sector since California in the '70s, and most of those hippies are Baby Boomer sellout shareholders by now anyway.

Stop trying to introduce alien Weenie concepts from foreign lands into the exceptionalism of America, dammit.  Green is just a lawn color here.

And guess what? That color is a petroleum by-product!

http://www.lawnlift.com/

That shit is good when the house you are flipping has a shitty brown lawn and you don't want to spend the bucks on landscaping.